Transcript Analysis -Chandler’s behavior and words..
The focus of this post is going to examine a conversation taped by Dave Schwartz between he and Evan Chandler in presumably around July 8, 1993. We will examine Chandler’s state of mind, terminology he used and his behavior by using the full court transcript of Audio Cassette Marked -D. Schwartz and E. Chandler, Exhibit No.10, File No. TPA81793
The conversation between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz took place before Evan took Jordan for a one week stay (which he never returned Jordan to June) around July 8 and ended sometime around July 9th- once he had Jordan in his custody on July 12th, Evan took Jordan to have his tooth pulled – the day when sodium amytal was used and Evan said Jordan told him about the “molestation”. The tape was played to Pellicano on July 9th, as this was the day MJ learned what was really happening (according to our time line verified by many different sources). Evan had arranged a meeting as he spoke about in this transcript around July 11, 1993, which MJ did NOT attend for whatever reason. Evan stated that if MJ did not show up for the meeting, he would take the plan to the next level. That is what he did. On July 12th, the next day, Evan took Jordan into his care and brought him to the dentist.
This analysis of the conversation between Chandler and Schwartz will reveal what motivated him to make such the false and harmful accusations that had long-lasting and serious repercussions for everyone. The mere accusation of such an offense can mar, the reputation of the accused for life, even if proven false in a court of law. Please see the link to the McMartin Day Care case- a tragic situation where over 300 children made accusations about child abuse against a few adults and it was later found that the accusations were all fabricated. Not only can the life of the accused be upended, but the whole family of the accuser can also be destroyed, as is evident in the Chandler case. When a child is forced to participate in this type of deceit which demands that the child lie against an innocent man, someone who the child had cherished and loved, it can create a rift between the child and the accusing parent(s). In this case, the rifts caused would become so great, both the Schwartz’ AND the Chandler’s marriages would end in divorce and Jordan emancipated himself from his parents. Evan would spend the rest of his life relatively alone…only “caring” to have contact with his son. His relationship with his son deteriorated and there was violent at times between them. It was said that NO ONE attended Evan Chandler’s funeral, a sad fact that demonstrates complete alienation from everyone he knew.
June Chandler testified in 2005 that her son, Jordan hadn’t spoken to her in 11 years and various news reports detailed the violent episodes between Jordan and his father Evan. In 2005, Tom Mesereau revealed that after the 93 settlement Jordan sought emancipation from his parents. (In 1996 he did) Mr. Mesereau asked June Chandler whether she had ever sued Michael Jackson; she denied it stating that Larry Feldman was Jordan’s Lawyer and not hers, yet on the settlement in 1993, June, Evan AND Jordan’s names were on the suit and Larry Feldman represented them all. When it came time for June to answer Tom Mesereau’s questions about their interactions with Barry Rothman, Anthony Pellicano and other questions regarding the 1993 case (the questions asked did NOT violate the gag order in the 1993 case) , she was made to answer those questions which she suddenly did not recall the circumstances. Everyone should read June Chandler’s testimony and cross-examination during the 2005 trial. (see blogroll link for 2005 transcripts)
After the 1993 settlement, a series of litigation were entered into the courts between June Chandler, David Schwartz, and Evan Chandler. Evan had sued them for invasion of privacy while June and David claimed Evan was abusive towards them. When June Schwartz and David ended their marriage, David Schwartz sued Evan for “breaking up the family”….sound familiar? David Schwartz and Barry Rothman attempted to sue Michael Jackson for their grievances as they both did not receive any payout from the 1993 settlement and they lost their case with those two filings. It was supposedly during this time that Jordan emancipated himself from his parents. These are all events that occurred in part due to lies, deceit, and squabbles over money.
General Consensus –
A parent who has proof that their child is being molested would immediately contact the police, file a report and remove the child from the proximity of the perpetrator.
A parent who was embroiled in a custody battle pertaining to said child would file with the court an emergency, ex parte with their “proof” to request that the child be immediately removed from the ex’s residence, where the proposed molestation has taken place.
A parent might go through a myriad of emotions; ranging from denial, anger, sadness, frustration and helplessness but surely would act immediately to protect their child. These actions are not what Evan Chandler did; he negotiated with MJ for money to support his screenwriting dreams and when that didn’t work out he manipulated the system to obtain custody of his son and devised a devious plan to “ruin them”. This ruination included Jordan, his ex-wife and Michael Jackson.
When the conversation(s) between he and Dave Schwartz took place in early July of 93, Evan Chandler had not yet already put his son under the sodium amytal. Sodium amytal is not usually used for tooth extraction as it is a psychiatric drug. Patients under its affect are highly susceptible to the implantation of false memories and generally this drug is used by qualified psychiatrists when performing psychoanalysis.
The transcript is extremely long and it a laborious read but crucial to understanding the motivation behind Chandler’s false accusation against Michael Jackson. After careful review it can be determined that Evan Chandler’s main concern was Evan Chandler. The manner in which he speaks about what was done to him, rather than what was done to Jordan, speaks volumes. The indications that he would be willing to “resolve” the issue and that he doesn’t want to “hurt anyone” does not support the idea that he believes his son has been molested because Evan’s actions were to destroy everyone and alienate his son from everyone positive in his life- including his mother. How could any loving and protecting parent want to “resolve” the issue in these ways? Furthermore, most parents who felt a person had sexually violated their child would most definitely want to seek prosecution, not “work things out” :that’s simply unnatural.
However, Chandler does not display natural responses in this transcript. His demeanor goes through phases from wanting to be a hero, being a victim and then seeking revenge. He stated very clearly how he was schooled in what to say the whole time and how he did not want to say anything that would implicate him when he implemented his plans. The fact that he ultimately committed suicide is an indication that he was seriously emotionally unstable. Since the 1993 settlement, the fact that Evan was further alienated from his family, both marriages, and only sought to have a relationship with his son speaks VOLUMES. In these conversations, Evan wanted Schwartz to believe that he was doing this for the sake of his son Jordan but his actions belie this stance.
After his ex-wife, son and daughter returned from Monaco in May, Chandler became increasingly belligerent as he began to feel discarded as Michael spent less and less time with him. Chandler made suggestions that with all the glitz and glamor, June was exposing Jordan to a lifestyle that was harmful and implied that she was not a good custodial parent. Schwartz initially taped the conversation with Chandler in an effort to protect June but it became clear that Evan was also gunning for Michael too and if he didn’t get what he wanted – “they would all be destroyed”. That is certainly what he did. He destroyed his family, his marriage, June’s marriage, his relationship with Jordan, created doubts and misconceptions about MJ to say the least. While his allegations against MJ caused doubts in many peoples minds, others have started to research beyond what the media reported, and the truth of these heinous false allegations are finally being exposed.
The aftermath analysis also shows that any time the Chandlers had their chance to speak their truth in court, they all avoided it, with the exception of June Chandler as she participated in the 2005 trial. Instead, Ray Chandler would write a book called “All That Glitters”. “All that Glitters” was a book written about the 1993 times MJ spent with the Chandlers. Ray Chandler went all over the media to advertise his book and made strong claims that MJ was guilty, but what did he do when it came time to swear on it in court? Ray fought the subpoena and stood behind the “shield law”. Ray claimed in his attempts to quash the subpoena that nothing in that book was of value to the 1993 allegations! Ray Chandler appeared to every TV interview he booked saying that his book was “the truth” about 1993 and then wrote in his quash that NOTHING in his book was of value to the court when he was delivered a subpoena? Ray’s behaviors demonstrates that whatever was in that book was nothing but lies and false accusations- he had his chance to tell the truth in court, he CHOSE to fight the subpoena. Instead, Ray Chandler chose to “speak truth” to the media and whoever would book him for an interview. (quash subpoena:
These are a must read in their entirety.)
The truth is that when it came time for the Chandlers to tell their “truth” in court, where they would be cross-examined,they knew they WOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bearing false witness and they all did not want to suffer those consequences. Otherwise, they would have stood up by their words in court. Research his interviews; Ray said he had documentation and all kinds of “proof” that he said showed MJ was guilty, but when asked to present it in the 2005 trial, RAY Evan and Jordan REFUSED to cooperate. It speaks volumes.
Furthermore, Evan Chandler also refused to testify as did his son, Jordan. Jordan was interviewed by the FBI to testify in the 2005 trial and he stated that if he was made to testify, he would fight it and said that “he had done his part”. Jordan also said in his interview with Dr. Gardner that he was afraid of cross-examination. Behaviorally speaking, this shows he feared retribution because he knew that in court he would have to answer questions to which he knew he was made to lie. He washed his hands of it all. Behaviorally speaking, a person who IS telling the truth would not fear cross examination. As a child, some may say it is understandable he might have been afraid initially, however, there is nothing to fear when you tell the truth, even to a 14 year old child. It showed he had no support to tell his story in court.
The first conversation will be used as a baseline as this is the conversation where it is certain that Evan did not think that it was being recorded. His subsequent conversations reveal his suspicions and his language somewhat changed where Evan tried to be more “concerning” to Jordan’s welfare, however, you can compare all three conversations against one another and against Evan’s own words, it cannot be hidden that Evan’s plan was predicated on false allegations against MJ and that he really did not care what it did to anyone. When you compare events to all three conversations, the time line matches exactly what he said he would do. Evan’s plans were carried out with much assistance from” those he had in place”- just as he claimed in these conversations. Evan had several meetings with his lawyers and used psychology professionals to help. Rothman had sent Evan several statutes on how to report abuse without liability to a parent and through a third party. That means that he would have to get a “mandated reporter” to do it for him because that person IS a third party. That IS exactly what he did. (Hughes, 2004) The time line for this case will be compared in this analysis.
Conversation 1 begins:
4 MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might
5 be harmful.
6 Suppose I’m right? I mean if Michael
7 loves [tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to
8 hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be
9 potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you
10 don’t want them to get hurt. pg 4
Evan stated: “if you love somebody, you don’t want them to get hurt”, however, his plan was sure to hurt many. Keep this in mind. He did not care what would happen to anyone as he implemented his plan.
Chandler said he wanted a meeting with June, Jordan and Michael to “discuss why ‘it’ might be harmful.” Surely molestation is not in his mind, so what is “it”? Might? If Chandler believed Michael was molesting his 13 year old son, would “might” be a proper word? “Potentially harmful” is another operative phrase- why would he use the word “potentially” when he “believed” Jordan was being molested? A natural parental reaction would not verbalize or describe it as “potentially harmful” at all- behaviorally speaking, they would SAY it WAS harmful. What makes more sense to meaning of “Potentially harmful” is whether he is actually referring to the plot he undertook and why- THAT is what really would BE potentially harmful to everyone. Nevertheless, Evan was more concerned with his own agenda and why that would be potentially harmful. Evan stated “at least want to hear my opinion about what was going on could be potentially harmful?” Again, if Chandler was convinced Michael had molested his son, would he be trying to have conversations where his ‘opinion’ needed to be heard or would he have immediately gone to the police? Progression through the transcript will reveal that “hear my opinion” was extremely important to Chandler as the majority of this conversation does NOT revolve around the welfare of Jordan but rather to the “potential harm” and “hurt” of Chandler’s ego.
Schwartz asks why he wants Jordy present and Chandler answers:
19 MR. CHANDLER: He has to be there, and
20 one of the reasons that he has to be there is
21 because he’s always gonna remember it. Somebody
22 has to be the — there’s gotta be some one person
23 that later on in life he can look back on and kind
24 of pattern himself after someone or have some
25 structure for his own existence, based on — he’ll pg 4
First, “one of the reasons” denotes that there is more than one reason and here he only discussed that he wanted Jordan to see him as a hero. Here is the crux of Evan Chandler’s motivation to accuse MJ of this heinous crime against Jordan. The statement “one person he can look back on and kind of pattern himself after ….have some structure for his existence” By this time, Jordan had already started to “pattern” himself after somebody else. Jordan started acting and dressing like Michael much to the chagrin of Chandler. This obvious displacement of role model weighed heavy in the feelings of alienation Chandler was experiencing. Evan stated that “Jordan has to be there” which he was telling David to ensure that he was present. If Jordan was in Evan’s care at the time, he would not have a need to ask Schwartz to make sure Jordan was there because he could then do it himself. If without verification from any other outside source, this statement alone proves that the conversation was before Evan forcefully had taken custody of Jordan on July 12th. (Evan had taken custody of Jordan on July 12th for a supposed one week stay; this conversation was recorded and played for Anthony Pellicano, MJ’s investigator, on July 9th. Evan wanted MJ to meet up with them on July 11th to discuss things and MJ did not attend for whatever reason. The very next day, Evan took Jordan to see the dentist and was given sodium amytal- the day Evan said Jordan admitted MJ molested him, and subsequently, Jordan never returned to his mother’s care.)
At this point Evan Chandler’s relationship with Jordan had deteriorated and MJ had stepped in basically to fill the ‘father’ and male confidant shoes and this theme of alienation will reappear throughout the conversation. This is key to understanding part of Evan Chandler’s motivation was the jealously that Michael had a better relationship with Jordan than he had, even though Chandler was his father. However, Jordan was 13 years old and if Evan had never developed a trusting and loving relationship with his son prior to the introduction of MJ into their lives, then it’s no wonder that the father son bond broke down.
1 look at me, and he’ll say, “Yeah. He was honest,
2 he had integrity, he had respect. I could trust
3 him. He never lied to me,” all that kind of stuff. pg 5
This is an interesting statement only because it seems odd that it would take this situation for Chandler to have the expectation the Jordan would consider him honest, with integrity or respect. Most sons who have good relationships with their fathers automatically think their father’s can be trusted and that they are honest and don’t lie. Why would this confrontational meeting with Jordan, June and Michael NEED to take place for Jordan glean that? Unless, Chandler, a man with a known ballistic temper had never developed a good honest relationship with his son.
4 He may hate me now. He may not be able
5 to articulate all of those things in his own head
6 right now, but when he sees it, it’ll be in his
7 head, and when he’s old enough there will be those
8 things that will be important to him. pg 5
Well, as it turned out from that subsequent meeting, Jordan did come to hate his father and their relationship was often times violent and emotionally turbulent. The fact that Jordan requested emancipation from his parents after the settlement (1996), alone implies that he was forced to participate in something against his will and that his parents were fighting over the money he had obtained- also possibly fighting over Jordan/putting Jordan between them. There may be other reasons why Jordan would file for emancipation, however, most children do not seek emancipation unless they want to become independent AND out of parental control financially and also to end family squabbles surrounding custody. Something that no loving parent should ever ask a child to lie against an innocent man, and to never use their child against one another as the Chandlers used Jordan. It was said that when Evan died, no one went to his ceremony. Not ONE family member. These statements in the conversation under analysis indicate that Evan KNEW and did not feel that his son honored him as a father and there were reasons for that. Saying that Jordan does not understand now but will later in the thinking that he will be able to value “the important” things shows that Evan wanted to be the “hero” in Jordan’s eyes and his actions demonstrate how he wanted to use the situation to create that honor Evan felt he was entitled.
11 I also think it’s incredibly important
12 to have somebody else in your life that really
13 loves you and you really love them because if
14 you’re [tape irregularity] happy.
15 I’ve never seen a single solo, isolated
16 human being who was truly happy –pg 5
The fact that Evan used the words “someone in your life” seemingly without the inclusion of how others can fulfill that role alludes that Evan believed only ONE person can do that for Jordan above everyone else. A person should have more than one person that they can rely on, however, Evan is clear that he wants to be the ONLY one in Jordan’s life to be that secure force. When Evan made that statement, he was identifying that he was not that person in Jordan’s life as Michael Jackson had usurped that position, and recognized the distance between them.
The times Chandler uses the word “I” throughout this conversation is relevant in that it denotes his ‘ego’ and his hurt ego is clearly a motivating factor in his subsequent actions. Who is Chandler referring to in this passage? Clearly – himself. His specific usage of the word “isolated” is supported throughout the conversation, other comments refer to his own feelings. He projects and displaces a lot during this conversation. He felt ostracized by not only Jordan, but June and MJ. Later, he made references to what he expected out of all of them, and when they failed to meet his expectations, he wanted the situation ‘resolved’ according to whatever was written on those papers. In Chandler’s mind, maybe monetarily due to the negotiations he participated in with Pellicano. He was basing his words on the fact that in his mind, “love” is based on demonstration to how people show their love in communication. These words imply that Evan does not see where Jordan has people around him who truly care about Jordan and since “they” were not communicating with him, then they did not love him.
Lines 18-25 pg 6 Remember that Chandler was in a custody dispute with June and he was setting up a case against her. In these conversations, Evan states how June “will lose custody of Jordan and she would never have the right to see him again.” Evan claimed that June lacks interpersonal skills, that no one loved her and she loved no one, and that she had no good relationships but Schwartz disagreed and mentioned that she “hangs out’ with Gloria, Nadine and Florence. Then Chandler shifted gears to talk about June in this manner:
2 MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out’s kind of a
3 benign thing. She’s not hanging out anymore. When
4 she stopped hanging out –
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: — and became actively
7 destructive in Jordy’s life is when I stepped in
8 and when I decided I have to do something about it.
9 I tried to talk to her about it, Dave,
10 on several occasions. pg 7
In this passage he described his low opinion of June, and the used the words “actively destructive” which is extremely negative but if he thought this to be true, why did he not bring this to the judges attention who was handling their custody case back? Hindsight is nice, but Evan did not bring it to the judge’s attention in August that year either. August 16th was the day June filed the ex-parte for Evan to return Jordan to June. The day of that court meeting, Evan did not return Jordan, he had taken him to Dr. Abrams to make the allegations. Remember the document Rothman sent Evan about how to report abuse without liability to a parent and by a third party? That was sent to Evan around July 27th… We’re just saying that in looking at what was done and what was said, Evan had behaved exactly as he said he would and with the “professional advice” he apparently went by it. These actions are not by a loving parent wanting justice for their son, these are actions by someone who had a plan, who was planning to extort money and who went by the words said in these conversations.
Evan intended that the meeting “tomorrow” is going to be judgment day for June Chandler and MJ. He stated “when I decided to do something about it” means he ALREADY has a plan because he used past tense and he said “I tried to talk to her about it, Dave, on several occasions”. This shows that he felt he was being ignored and alienated. He never owned up to the real reasons why people did not want to talk to him about his concerns.
15 She is impossible to talk to. And I’ve never
16 really — I mean, I’ve gotten angry with her many
17 times and –
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]
20 long as you’ve stepped in — pg 7
From this it can be assessed that as per usual, with many divorced couples, issues and arguments, regarding parenting may arise…but interestingly enough, it seems that Schwartz, the replacement husband, and Chandler seemed to have an understanding. Chandler intimates that if it hadn’t been for Schwartz, his anger would have come into play and he and June may have not been able to resolve some issues. At this time Chandler was owing 68K in back child support and this may have been a contributing factor to some of the turmoil between the two parents.
2 before that I’ve backed down –
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: — because you asked me
5 to or whatever the reason was –
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’ve never
8 been — I’ve never been that set on pursuing it
9 until now because I truly believe this will damage
10 him for the rest of his life. And she will
11 not — and I’ve told her that, and I’ve tried to
12 talk to her about that –
17 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t even want to
18 hear what might be harming him.
20 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t want to
21 even know — she doesn’t want to hear any words.
23 MR. CHANDLER: “Get out of my face.
24 Don’t even mention that.” That’s not an issue for
25 her. pg.8
Chandler started to rant on June here and Schwartz couldn’t squeeze hardly any responses in but it’s clear that Evan believes that June is not supervising or parenting well. If he truly believed she was harming Jordan “for life”, why did Chandler do nothing for months to remove Jordan from what he deems is this ‘destructive’ and ‘harmful’ situation? He stated “he has not been that set on pursuing it until now because I believe truly it will damage him for the rest of his life” and saying that she does not want to hear what could be harming him. Surely this was not about molestation, as there is no doubt how harmful that would be to a child to chance any exposure and no parent in their right mind would allow a child to be near someone who they even SUSPECTED in the slightest that they were molesting their child. No parent in their right mind would take that chance. Sure, now that Evan perceived that Jordan esteemed MJ more than Evan, and his EGO became threatened that his own son was NOT considering EVAN as his role model, this would be Evan’s idea that Jordan would be ruined for life because he was pushing his own father aside by spending time with MJ, rather than Evan, and consider Evan stated comments about “having that one person in their life”… THIS was what Evan considered detrimental to Jordan- it was what was detrimental to EVAN because since MJ came into their lives, that person was not him. Notice Evan does not say that it is “molestation” that “could” be harming him- no parent in their right mind would allow a “suspected” molestation to endure for months before doing anything about it. Behaviorally, this means that molestation was not the issue, but rather Evan’s alienation from the family- and the real issues surround from him not being a role model to his son that he felt that is harmful to his son. He stated in the previous statements how he wanted to be Jordan’s role model. EVAN stated previously that Jordan will say when he looks at EVAN that “he never lied to me, he was honest with me, he had integrity, he had respect” because EVAN felt his son did not look up to him. Evan stated “it was not an issue for her” to establish that June has no concern over Jordan’s welfare, and since June had not enforced that Jordan spend time with his father when it was slated to happen, then SHE was negligent as a mother to have taken the father away from Jordan.
1 I mean, what kind of person is that?
2 If — I stopped taking that personally.
10 The fact is you’re a responsible adult.
11 You’re supposed to have some sense and judgment,
12 and that’s how it’s going to go down. pg 9
Oh, you can believe he is “taking that personally” because his words and actions are indeed very personal. Even though Chandler and June were divorced he still had a major amount of influence in her life because he was Jordan’s father. However, for approximately one year, Jackson had slowly displaced him as the decision maker on what, when, how, and where his family was going. He’s implied to Schwartz that at the time, he was going to take control of this situation, because June has fallen down on her parental job and demonstrate he was the “responsible adult” – he felt she was responsible in Jordan’s care by allowing their son to not honor the time that Jordan was supposed to spend with his father. Behaviorally speaking, these words demonstrate congruity to the fact that Evan wanted to be the one in Jordan’s life who was that responsible parent who “truly loved him, respects him”-the ONLY one who JORDAN looked up to and that this WAS about Evan’s ego as a man and father. This is very selfish behavior -developmentally, a child will have bonds with family and people who are equally important though on different levels but to those they feel have genuine care for them. A child who has support from all those who love him or her will grow up with all that integrated and in perspective if the parents teach priority. A child needs to have a strong family support system as well as social support from their peers and community and when one is lacking, or at a deficit, the child then has struggles in certain areas characterized by where there were deficits manifested in personal behaviors in response to those situations. (Ainsworth, Bandura and Michel, c. 1982)
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. How about if you,
14 June and I get together?
15 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why do you keep
16 doing that?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t — I
18 don’t want to subject Jordy to this until — I
19 mean, I feel very uncomfortable — pg 9
Schwartz quite appropriately expressed he is ‘uncomfortable’ in bringing the minor child into this meeting but Chandler insisted that Jordan must be present, and Evan spoke with authority as he intended to have the whole situation under his control. It appears that Chandler was perturbed by this repeated voicing of Schwartz worry about Jordan’s presence at the meeting. Why? Isn’t the boy’s welfare supposed to be uppermost in everyone’s mind? His intention was not to work this out with June, David and Jordan. He wanted to work this out with MJ- Evan repeatedly stated “MJ is the one I want”. An explanation will be inserted then because you have to see how that fits into Evan’s rationale and plan. Then he lays out how he’s been coached on what to say and how to act during the proposed meeting with Jordan, June and Michael.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
21 this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m
22 going to go in there that have been rehearsed and
23 I’m going to say.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t pg 9
1 want to say anything that could be used against me.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I
4 can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape
5 recorder. pg 10
He was coached by the bulldog lawyer Barry Rothman , that he will describe later in the conversation to us “set words” and he was “rehearsed” not to say “anything that could be used against [him].” How would anything he said be used against him if he is only expressing a concern for his son and that his protection was based on truth? “He knows exactly what he can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape recorder.” – what does a tape recorder have to do with knowing what to say when a tape recorder will record conversation that one has not had yet? This is a very telling statement because this showed insight into something he did not want people to pick up on.
I’ll say this again: A tape recorder tapes conversations that have not happened yet- things that have NOT been recorded previously. He linked that statement about recording to the previous sentence: “So I know exactly what I can say.” That could only mean one thing: that he will review the tape once he had finished recording and use it to rehearse for later- so he will know BETTER on what he CAN say. He had just been boasting that he had been coached on what to say and do and he did not “want to say anything that could be used against him”, so it is likely that he would continue to be coached and take measures so he WOULD NOT say or do anything that would be used against him. These thoughts and actions are consistent with all he just said. This sentence is precise mirror into his mindset and purposes to what he is thinking and doing; all of the sentences are consistent to one another, in support of each other. This means that these statements are TRUTH to his mindset, his words, thoughts and actions.
Furthermore, it means that whatever was going on was not based on truth and that he had no reason to go through with his plan, other than his self-serving reasons because the truth does not need coaching, rehearsal or concern with “saying or doing anything that could be used against him”. By taping the conversation, Evan would have time to review it and to make some changes for a stronger position later. He said he was being coached on what to do and say- if he did something that could have implications later, he can then has time to backtrack. Also, this confirms that he is being schooled on what to do when and also evidence of PLOTTING. You DO NOT have to rehearse any truth. The incongruity in his behavior and speech demonstrates that he needed justification, validation, and support in order to carry it through. Usually, the truth does that on its own and the circumstances around the truth explains it all without any plan, without any manipulation. Instead what you are seeing is someone who orchestrated a huge whammy that would come to ruin the lives of many people, many of whom Evan claimed to “love” and who he “wanted to protect”.
This begs the question.. if is he was going to confront Michael over his suspicions or proof of molestation why would he need to be rehearsed or worried about saying anything that can be used against him? This is where his behaviors match what he said: he said he was coached, and was behaving as he WAS coached. He also did not act in behaviors consistent with those of real molestation cases where the child’s safety and security is of most importance. Evan spoke about how HE was alienated, not listened to, not considered as a role model, and how he had trouble paying on his financial obligations. THAT is MOTIVE.
Any normal person who truly believed his child was a victim, he would first of all:
#1 Not meet with the molester to ‘resolve’ the issue, in the first place and
#2 Not mince any words
#3 and if the first two natural tendencies did not occur to him; NOT expose his child to this confrontational meeting..( much like Schwartz had advised )However, as the conversation continues it is clear that Chandler didn’t really think Jordan was being molested, in reality, he believed that Jordan was a “selfish user” as he described June and that his participation in the “alienation” of his father was neither acceptable or forgivable. Chandler insisted that Jordan be there to witness how he was going to snatch back the power from MJ and his ex-wife June. He was using is own power against his son who would not have an understanding to what is going on because simply, molestation did not occur. Behaviorally speaking, this action places Jordan at the whim of his parents. This was a child of 13 years old who cannot live without their financial support.
7 MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on
8 paper to show a few people –
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s it. My
11 whole part is going to take two or three minutes,
12 and I’m going to turn around [tape irregularity],
13 and that’s it. There’s not going to be anything
14 said, other than what I’ve been told to say –
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m going to turn
17 around and leave, and they’re going to have a
18 decision to make.
Chandler was certain that Jordan, June and Michael would all have a “decision to make.” It means that all three papers he would give them are different from one another- otherwise, why not show just one? Maybe he would have three to show so they could all read at once, however, by what Evan says, each paper may not have the same content. Whatever was on those papers, it was something Evan did not want to read out loud. He said he had been coached, that he did not want to say anything that would mess things up or get him into trouble. Evan stated that Jordan needed to be there for more than just to witness the ‘integrity’ of his father. It is NOT normal to negotiate with a man think who is molesting a child, much less- YOUR child. Putting aside the abnormalcy of this scenario: Is it conceivable that this negotiation would take place in front of the child who is the victim of this man you’re accusing. It’s beyond credulous, its insidious. What was on the papers? Certainly no out and out threat of extortion because that could be used against him.
0 MR. CHANDLER: And based on that
21 decision, I’ll decide whether or not we’re going to
22 talk again or whether it’s going to go further.
Based on “that decision”? The decision that EVAN would decide though Jordan is supposed to be participating or the very least witnessing? Based on that decision Chandler would decide whether “it’s going further” without Jordan’s input, but yet they would all have a decision to make? He did not intend for Jordan to have a say in what will happen- THE DECISION BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT WOULD BE DECIDED WHERE TO GO FROM THERE is what a child does not have the power to decide something against their parents at the age of 13. (Remember, Jordan relied on his family for food, shelter and clothing at the very least.) Surely he wasn’t referring to an accusation of his son’s molestation. No, surely no decision of such magnitude would be discussed with the perpetrator of such a crime and in front of his victim. So what was on the papers? Clearly whatever was on the papers, the proposal for each person was orchestrated on paper, carefully selected, as he had been coached to eliminate the possibility that would mess it up- the “tape recorder” would NOT pick up “nothing that could be used against him”. Whatever on the papers was therefore something that could be used against Evan- otherwise, he would have spoken what was on the papers. According to Hughes, potential content to what was on those papers was the 4 stipulations: Jordan was not to be allowed to see MJ anymore, that while Jordan was in Evan’s care, no child support would be owed, none past due is owed. (Hughes, 2004)
12 I’m not — I happen to know what’s
13 going to be going on, see? They don’t have to say
14 anything to me. [Tape irregularity] “you have
15 refused to listen to me. Now you’re going to have
16 to listen to me. This is my position. Give it a
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: “Think it over.”
20 I’m not saying anything bad about
21 anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.
The bolded parts are of importance. He said he was the only one who knew what was going to go on, which means, MJ did not molest his son, because, if MJ did, wouldn’t MJ know what could happen if he really was doing that to a child? The reason why Evan states that MJ does not know what was going on is because NOTHING went on other than Evan trying to extort money from him. THAT is what MJ did not know or would EXPECT because there was no reason that MJ would have anticipated. Keep that in mind. For all you haters out there who think MJ was a molester- as many haters claim, if MJ was in the habit of paying off people as in hush money, don’t you think he would have known “the routine” and consequences? Evan saying that he was the only one who knew what was going on is precisely indicating that cognitively, Evan knew that MJ did NOT molest Jordan nor that he intended to come between family members and therefore would NOT be accustomed or expected anything to happen -such as paying out any money as restitution or the other consequences. Evan stated at some point in these conversations that MJ “won’t know what hit him and was going to be embarrassed and humiliated beyond belief. ” If MJ did anything to Jordan, surely he could anticipate and understand if he was caught that there would be consequences.
It is important to note that any negotiation that Pellicano had with Rothman and Chandler was to prove that Evan was after money to begin with. MJ did NOT agree to pay the 1993 settlement and was set against giving Chandler any money since the beginning. Evan said that if MJ paid out the money asked, none of it would have gone to court and in Ray Chandler’s words “If MJ had paidout any money in August, he would have spent the next ten years known as the best entertainer, rather than the most infamous child molester.” (Chandler, R. , p.128, “All that Glitters”, 2004) These are very strong statements that indicate MJ’s innocence and that the Chandlers did extort money.
He demanded this meeting, because up to that point June had refused to “listen” and this is key. He was saying: Since you didn’t listen I am going to get nasty. The “I’m not saying anything bad about anybody, okay?” It is an odd statement to make if he thinks MJ is a molester. He has separate papers, one for June, one for MJ. He spoke later on how he has spent 10K, money he could ill afford, to set up this ‘shake down’. He expressed in detail that “HE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON, SEE” because he wants to maintain control over what was happening and behaviorally speaking, that statement means that the situation was fabricated, which was why MJ would not suspect a thing.
3 MR. CHANDLER: “Compare papers. Read
4 this whole thing. This is my feelings about it.
5 Do you want to talk further? We’ll talk again.”
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you don’t” [tape
8 irregularity] — but, see, all I’m trying to do
9 now, they have forced me to go [tape irregularity]
10 on paper and give it to them to read –
See now here he said to “compare the papers.” If they all said one thing, there would be no reason to compare them, so this is evidence that the papers stated different content. This whole situation was not about molestation, and in fact, he stated at some point in the conversation that he did not know whether Jordan was molested. It is clear there is an ultimatum or more than one on the papers to pertain to each individual, and since he wanted them to compare papers then June and Michael had separate decisions to address. Obviously, on the paper, Chandler did not accuse Michael of molesting Jordan and that he wanted it to stop. If that was the case, Chandler would have just gone to the police and let the authorities handle. This was a proposal that had several parts; something for June to do and something for Michael to do and the phrase “if you don’t” implies serious repercussions. Then he rationalizes this by basically saying, “You had your chance to talk now I am going to play hardball.”
3 irregularity]. I mean, isn’t that pitiful?
14 Now, why would they want to cut me out,
15 to go this far, spend this much money, spend so
16 much time in my life crying, being away from my
17 practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody
18 else? Why would they want to put me through that?
19 And I made it very clear to June that she was
20 putting me through that because I didn’t want any
21 misunderstandings. I’ve done everything I could to
22 appeal to her. (Inaudible) is cold and heart- –
23 absolutely cold and heartless. That’s all –
Now Chandler explained to Schwartz how they all came to this “pitiful” situation. He asked “why would they cut me out” Out of what? The family? This was about June allowing Michael to “harm” Jordan (as he believed that MJ broke up the family), June allowing Jordan to spend time slated to spend with Evan with MJ instead or is this about Chandler losing his role as father and authoritative figure in the family. So this wasn’t about Jordan at all, it was about Evan. Further along in the conversation you will see how, in his mind, he had been victimized by his family and a usurper had moved into his territory. Evan expressed everything was THEIR fault, because June was “absolutely cold and heartless.” and he said “they are making me do it”. He took no responsibility for his actions. Here he stated also that money had been an issue with him because he spent so much money, surely not on bills; he reveals now that this was about EVAN crying, NOT WORKING, and not paying HIS bills. He said he spent a lot of money to do this plan, so this was where his money is going in part.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, no. I think on the
4 surface it might appear cold, but I don’t — I
5 don’t agree with that.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, “Go fuck yourself”
7 is not a surface reaction.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Have you
9 ever — you mean you have never done that, right?
From 16-25 they discuss how people argue, then Chandler returns to Jordan.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you
7 this — I mean, did you give Jordy any ultimatums?
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Because, see,
10 that’s how he feels trapped, I think.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Too bad.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why — I mean –
13 MR. CHANDLER: All he has to do is talk
14 to me about it.
When Schwartz tried to explain to Chandler that his boy felt trapped after the father gave him an ultimatum, Chandler said, “Too bad”. What was the ultimatum? Stop spending time with Michael Jackson? That is the only possibility because June and Jordan had been receiving gifts, attention, and love from Michael and they are even getting ready accompany him on his upcoming tour, which Evan was not invited to attend (otherwise, there would have been no problem). This is when Chandler started feeling alienated from his son and when June refused to listen to his concerns, he was incensed and spent “hours crying over, spending money” to arrange things so that that HAD to listen. It is obvious that he felt Jordan disrespects him by saying “Too bad.” Again, if Evan believed for even one second that MJ molested his child, it makes no sense that Evan was asking Jordan to do NOT do anything, it would simply be done and enforced. Evan did not forcefully restrict anyone until he put his plans in motion- to divide and conquer. This is NOT the behavior of someone who wants justice for their child- his actions demonstrate that he used a situation to get what HE needed: money and custody of Jordan.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but how can
16 you — I mean, you know what you could do — I
17 mean, couldn’t you approach it like saying, “Jordy,
18 this is how I feel. This is why communications is
19 important. We gotta discuss this.”
20 MR. CHANDLER: This is what I said to
21 Jordy. I said, “What if I asked you not to do
22 something?” That’s how I put it.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: He said, “I wouldn’t
Chandler explains to Schwartz how he attempted to talk to Jordan and ask him not to do ‘something’. What is the something? Not going on tour with Michael? (In June, Jordan’s mother told Evan that they would be going away on tour with MJ.) Again, it points to Chandler asking his son to curtail his friendship and time spent with the super star because it was cutting into his time with his son. If he suspected his child was being molested, he would not have to ask his son not to see MJ, he would TELL him, prohibit contact and go to the police. This is not what Evan was doing. Chandler felt that the father son relationship was being undermined by this super star with all his glitz and glamor and his son didn’t seem to care. This analysis is not to say Chandler didn’t have justification for feeling left out, if that was indeed the case. This means he had no real reason to prohibit Jordan from seeing MJ. This means, cognitively, he did not believe MJ was molesting his son. Evan’s words and behaviors are not consistent of a parent who believes their child is being molested or that Jordan was engaging in harmful behaviors.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean, what is
7 wrong with that?
8 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let me ask you
9 this: Never in his life, ever, would he
10 have — did he ever respond that way or would he
11 have ever responded that way –
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: – which means that
14 something has happened inside of him and in his
15 life that is now making him respond to me in a
16 totally different way. What has happened to him?
17 His mother’s changed, and Michael’s in his life,
18 and you weren’t there to balance it out. And
19 that’s it.
First of all, whatever he said “changed” was about other people- what they did and did not do, but not what Evan did and did not do….he said: “and you weren’t there to balance it out” – balance what out? What is there to balance if someone is being molested? It makes no sense to say “balance it out” because anything can still happen, even at home regardless who is there or not. So this is NOT about molestation, but the fact that if Jordan had a solid role model beforehand, then Evan would not be worried about his place in his life and he would be spending time with Jordan. Jordan and June have changed since Michael came into their lives, because they were busy jet setting and enjoying the highlife. They didn’t seem to have time for Chandler anymore, and it is not unreasonable for the father to feel discouraged, however, his own behaviors could have contributed. However, it is one thing to feel discouraged and quite another to seek revenge for it by perpetrating evil against someone. With the “Whats’ wrong with that?” from Schwartz, Chandler knew he was loosing sympathy and so he hit Schwartz over the head with a little “and you weren’t there to balance it out” guilt trip. By doing so, he regained control over the conversation by putting Schwartz on the defensive. Evan stated “let me put it to you this way, Never in his life, ever, would he have — did he ever respond that way or would he have ever responded that way”. Cognitively, he is not understanding why Jordan would tell his father “I wouldn’t care” if he asked him to NOT do something that had no valid reason behind it. Evan seemed to interpret that Jordan did NOT respect or idolize him as an important figure in his life as he expressed how he viewed he was being treated. As indicated in his previous words, this is Evan’s issue. If Evan had a strong bond with his child, he would not have to worry about the Jordan’s demonstration of love and respect he has for him. It would simply BE there. So to Evan, Jordan’s words are a reflection of how his son feels about Evan.
He states next:
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, and I wasn’t
21 there, and you’re right.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I wasn’t there to
24 discuss it with him.
25 MR. CHANDLER: So the whole thing
So Chandler stated that Schwartz was not there to discuss anything and that the something that happened to have made Jordan change towards Evan, but you see, he said it was Schwartz fault! Later in the conversation, he stated that if Schwartz was there, it would not have happened. Schwartz accepted blame for not being there, so the ‘whole thing happened’. What happened? He did not talk about molestation he verbalized the evolution of the family’s attention centering on Michael. Evan obviously felt the family bond was broken by this super star who could come into his son’s life and steal his attention, however the family was dysfunctional previously before MJ came into their lives. From 2 – 25 and the next block of lines from 1-13, he then made a turnaround and stated the neither of them are to be blamed and qualified people are going to make an assessment of who is to be blamed. In the end it doesn’t matter cause that’s not how its going down as “the bottom line.” as they were going to blame it all on MJ and June anyways. Blamed for what? He wasn’t clear. Chandler is purposely evasive because he states later on that SOMEONE’S house may be wired, so he understood that there was a possibility that his activities were being monitored. Evan had a history of not accepting and accountability for his own actions and behaviors-it was always someone else’s fault, never his.
12 That’s not how it’s going to be seen (simultaneous,
It is clear that the (inaudible) Chandler implies fault on someone, probably June and Michael because Schwartz response is:
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: But does there have to
15 be where someone’s at fault? Can’t it be where we
16 just work it out?
17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you see — yeah.
18 That’s why I tried to get in touch with them, to
19 (simultaneous, inaudible) work it out –
Evan stated “I tried to get in touch with them, to work it out.” Work it out? If someone did something to your child what is there to ‘work out’? From 1-25 Chandler expressed there is a plan for Jordan and June to be on tour out of the country with Michael starting August 15 and how it will be difficult for him to have “conversations regarding this” while they’re gone. . . but wait.. then he said . . ” they’re not going”. He was talking about them going on tour with MJ, which he asked them not to go. Both June and Jordan wanted to go. If Evan believed that MJ was molesting Jordan, he would not be merely asking them not to go. (lines 15-25 page 17 is the talk about them going on tour August 15th and that they will be away for four months so “Evan will not have a chance to talk to them” during that time. Again, this is about Evan being alienated from them and obviously, Evan was not invited to go.) If Jordan himself was being molested, he surely would not want to go anywhere with MJ, as fear of places and people is a symptom of childabuse/molestation. (citation needed)
4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t know that
5 yet, but they are not going.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: So, I mean, especially
8 if they don’t show up tomorrow, they’re definitely
9 not going. They’ll be lucky if Michael even –
12 MR. CHANDLER: — tour (inaudible) get
13 canceled. pg 19
Why didn’t they know it yet? Because if they don’t show up tomorrow was an acquiesce to the demands he’s laid out in the mysterious ‘papers’ and then he was going to make that phone call that he mentioned before – the phone call to the people that cost him so much money to set up. Evan knew that if he showed them the papers that this was how he will make June and Jordan uninvited to attend the upcoming tour. This plan Evan had made was a way for Evan to control his family’s actions and alienate MJ from them all. Evan stated that “they will be lucky if Michael even..” but he was cut off. This indicates that his plans –part of whatever was in those papers- were to ensure that Michael would NOT want to have anything to do with Jordan and June again and it is also further evidence that Evan is demonstrating prior knowledge that MJ would not know or expect what was coming, whatever was on those papers was the key. It’s simple, behaviorally speaking, MJ did nothing wrong to anyone. June and Jordan’s relationship with MJ was mutual and honest, Evan had to create a situation to where the bond MJ shared with Jordan and June was ruined forever-another indication that MJ would not have any expectation. Evan also wanted to ruin MJ’s career so his comment regarding canceling the tour is exactly what Evan wanted.
Lines 14-25 pg 19
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me — let me
15 ask you this: I mean, why can’t you meet — why
16 can’t we meet after I get off work?
17 MR. CHANDLER: Because –
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, why not? What’s
19 the difference?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Seems to me it’s not
21 important enough for you to take off work to be –
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is important enough,
23 but I still –
24 MR. CHANDLER: Fuck your job.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
1 MR. CHANDLER: It’s still going to be
2 there at 8:35. This whole thing’s going to take
3 five minutes.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
Schwartz tried to get Chandler to change the meeting time till he was off work and Chandler told him he’s got his priorities mixed up. Chandler said ‘fuck your job’. Evan did not care about Schwartz’ livelihood. It’s a guilt trip because if it was going to go down with or without Schwartz, there would be no need to tell Schwartz “fk your job”. It’s passive aggressiveness….
5 MR. CHANDLER: I’ve already told you I
6 have — I’m not allowed to say anything more –
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — than I’ve already
9 prepared. It’s on paper.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it your –
11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going in to –
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it because of your
14 MR. CHANDLER: What?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because of your
17 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why don’t we meet at
19 your attorney’s office?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s something
21 we can do if we get past tomorrow.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
“Is it because of your attorney?” was why he cannot say anything more “than he has already prepared?” Evan is clear that there is already a plan in place that he cannot deviate nor divulge. “That’s something we can do if we get past tomorrow” is that then it would be ok for them to plan more once they know the reactions? These statements also imply that it is not just Evan’s plans…he had help. Furthermore, it demonstrates that whatever was going on at the time, it was PLANNED and that he was not to deviate from it. He had said that he did not want to do or say anything that would mess things up. There was a reason for all that planning and coaching….it’s simple, he had a goal and wanted to achieve it at whatever expense to anyone and anything and he did not care what that would do to anyone but what he was certain that whatever plan he had was going to alleviate his problems with custody and with financial responsibility. What he never accounted for was Jordan to seek emancipation….
23 MR. CHANDLER: He’s willing to meet
24 with them. Right now he’d like to kill them all.
25 I picked the nastiest mother-fucker I could find.
This dialogue demonstrates planning- EVAN, picked that nastiest person (his words “SOB”) he could find. Course the lawyer would be willing to meet with them, they would stand to gain financially with a high compensation if they “won”. The lawyer seems part of the plan or financially motivated. Notice Evan didn’t say he’d like to kill them both, meaning June and Michael, but ”he’d like to kill them “all”. The only three people Chandler was demanding to meet tomorrow was June, Jordan, and MJ, so “all” included Jordan. Is that any response to his son, who he said he loved and was willing to protect him, “ruin his own world”, one who he wanted custody over and to be the role model in his life? No, these are just side attractions/filler-fluff to make it look like he cared about his child. The lawyer wants to “kill them all” and this was the lawyer who Evan put everything in their hands? Perhaps Evan harbored such dark emotions about them all…like attracts like. He shopped for someone who would “get the job done” for him.
Schwartz discusses more about wanting to be there but Chandler says he’s staying with the plan, one that his lawyer would be willing to meet after “tomorrow”.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: The only reason that I’m
3 meeting with them tomorrow is, the real fact of the
4 matter is –
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: — because of Monique.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Monique begged me to do
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
So now Evan mentioned Monique, who was Evan’s second wife. MONIQUE begged him to “do it”? When Evan states later that she begged him to NOT do it. There is more to Monique than what Evan divulged. She was not someone who was supporting Evan in his plans…this part is very telling to the inside events around Evan.
11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “You’re out of
12 control” –
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can Monique be there?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Tomorrow?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: She wanted to be there,
17 but –
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I want her to be there.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I wouldn’t let her.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why not?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not true.
24 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: That is not true –
2 MR. CHANDLER: Now –
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — at all.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, really! Well,
5 then that makes Jordy a liar, and that makes
6 Michael a liar.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
8 MR. CHANDLER: They both told me that
9 Monique — that June –
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. You can’t see
11 that whole thing?
12 MR. CHANDLER: What?
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s woman jealousy.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care what –
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t matter –
16 MR. CHANDLER: The problem is you’re in
17 love with her so you keep on making excuses.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not in love with her
20 anymore. I don’t even like her anymore.
Evan is stating that he does not even like her [June] anymore but that Schwartz was married to June, so Schwartz still loves June. He is saying that Schwartz is clouded by his love for June.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t know about
22 female jealousy?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care about that.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing –
25 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) Dave.
1 That’s pathologic. I don’t want that affecting –
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not pathologic.
3 That is the bottom line.
4 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
5 inaudible) pathologic. I don’t care what the
6 reason is. I don’t care. I’m not playing
7 psychiatrist and analyzing.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why wouldn’t you
9 want Monique there? I would feel much more
11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
12 inaudible), that’s why.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates her,
15 so I don’t want to –
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: She does not hate her.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Of course she hates her.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: She totally respects her
19 and doesn’t hate her.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, Jordy is a
21 liar and Michael (inaudible) –
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — because they told me
24 verbatim, together –
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
1 MR. CHANDLER: — that June hates
3 In fact, they went even further and
4 told me several of the things that June said about
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Now, maybe they
8 went back and told June that Monique said things
9 about her and –
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — (inaudible) lied.
12 Maybe they’re lying. I don’t know. But knowing
13 June, I don’t think that they lied. I think
14 they’re telling me the truth.
The first thing Evan states was that the reason Evan stated why he was meeting with Jordan, June and MJ was because Monique “begged him to do it” and then said that Monique said to Evan “you are out of control”. Evan’s admission that Monique said that is very telling. Monique’s words mean that she did not agree with what Evan was doing to say that Evan was out of control. Evan arranged this meeting according to plan and he had steps to take should the meeting have not taken place. He said that in the conversation. It is possible that Monique suggested they should meet and work out their differences, but was not supportive to his plan as she begged him “NOT to do it”. However, Evan’s explanation says it all. She probably did encourage them to work it out, but her saying he was out of control suggests that she understood more of what was going on as she was close to Evan at home. She probably did know things and perhaps that is the real reason why Evan did not want her present. It would make sense that he did not want her there because she did not support his plan and could have gumption to let it out of the bag so to speak. Evan did not trust that she would not do that, so he did not want her present during the meeting. He could have told her they were meeting to clear things up, but whatever was on those papers was not a resolution based on truth or something that she would be in agreement with.
Then, Evan tried to “justify” why he didn’t want Monique present in the meeting by stating that June hates Monique- simple female rivalry, however, Schwartz debunked that they disliked each other. Evan disclosed that Jordan and MJ supposedly said things to him regarding things June supposedly said to MJ and Jordan regarding June’s feelings about Monique. While we can agree that some females harbor jealousy over another woman and some can get really nasty, especially one who married their ex husband if they have cheated, but we don’t know all the circumstances and much of that depends on personality type and personal skills, past experiences and overall certain behavioral attributes. So let’s go with what WAS said in Evan’s and Schwartz’ words.
Behaviorally speaking, Monique said (according to Evan) that Evan was out of control. Being out of control can mean many specifics, however, at the very least, Considering Monique said that to Evan, her words demonstrate that she did not agree with Evan cognitively. It would then be logical that Evan didn’t want Monique there if she did not agree with Evan or what he was doing because if she did say for them to meet to work things out and the content in those letters would cause issues, she may say something against it as well as whatever Evan was doing . But it is clear that Evan did not want Monique to INTERFERE with what he was doing because he gave every excuse to NOT have her there, even when Schwartz said he would be more comfortable having her there. Evan spent more time explaining the “existence of female jealousy” than any benefit to having Monique there because to Evan, there WAS no benefit to having Monique there. And that IS the real reason why Evan did not want her there because if she agreed with him, he would want her as a witness. But by analyzing what he said in its entirety, it had nothing to do with female jealousy. The fact that Schwartz was insistent that Monique and June were fine about each other and Evan tried to turn it around by disclosing hearsay and then circling around back to the aspect of “who is lying” means that what he said about female jealousy was simply a distraction, a lie, and he knew his attempt to explain it was not believed, but he did want to assert that he did not want her there. If he was CERTAIN that June hated Monique, he would have been able to shoot whatever Schwartz said down, but that is not what was said in between. Evan said previously in this conversation that he wanted a tape recorder there- even if Schwartz was there. If he were being honest, why wouldn’t he want witnesses AND a tape? No, he wanted just June, MJ, Jordan and Schwartz there and the tape recording it without other witnesses he did not trust in reaction. It is simple, he did not want Monique there because she threatened Evan’s plan. He said she begged him NOT to do it, and to do something else, that is apparent. He did not think he could control what SHE would say and the truth is, he couldn’t- otherwise, she would have been coached and on board with him.
Then he says this:
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: And I want Monique out
17 of this completely.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: Because all that will
20 happen is that June will convince Jordy that
21 Monique’s a bad person and by her presence there
22 she must have put me up to this whole thing --
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: — and June will
25 fabricate some great lie –
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Ahhh.
This plan is Evan’s plan, remember, and he said that he did not want to say or do anything that would implicate him or expose the plans in the process, that would include having anyone else there that may mess it up. He had been instructed on what to say and what to do, so he would not mess it up, and he would have wanted her to have been instructed and follow the plan too- which was apparent that she was NOT in agreement. Look back in the transcript, these are Evan’s own words. You see, Monique was not a willing participant -Evan said HE did not want her there- by Evan’s own words as he said Monique said he was out of control-later on said that Monique said “you don’t want to do this”- she obviously meant to do something that would hurt many people, and so what was happening was not the truth- otherwise, she would be in more support of him. So now you see in the passage, Evan put it back on June saying that June will poison Jordan’s mind against Monique and him by creating this lie that he thinks she would say. However, between the lines, Evan is saying Monique was NOT supportive in any way, and tried to justify it through female jealousy. If Monique really did say that Evan was “out of control” then she still at the very least did not agree with them and that would mean she would not be a willing participant. Evan wanted to avoid having Monique there and he’s presented every possibility as to why she should not be there. He said he did not want anything to mess it up or anyone, which was why he was coached on what to do and say. He would have wanted any participant to be as educated to the plan as he was. However, you see, it is clear that Monique was NOT in agreement.
Notice he has said nothing about whether Monique cares about Jordan or anything about molestation….
2 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
3 inaudible) I’m only going there because of Monique,
4 because, to tell you the truth, Dave, it would be a
5 lot easier for me and a lot more satisfying –
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — to see everybody get
8 destroyed –
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — like they’ve
11 destroyed me, but it would be a lot easier.
12 And Monique just kept telling me, “You
13 don’t want to really do this,” and she finally
14 [tape irregularity] for the sake of everything that
15 we’ve all had in the past –
Now Evan revealed here once again that Monique WAS NOT in agreement with Evan. It was why he did not want her there. Evan said he wanted to destroy everyone, so would this include her too? He was only going there “because of Monique”? Really- she would want him to work it out with them, but certainly, she had a conscience and morality to what is right to do. He reveals in this passage she told him NOT to do it….so Evan not wanting Monique there has nothing to do with female jealousy, but more to the point how Monique may say something that would be against him because that statement means she was not in agreement with his plans.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — to give it one more
18 try, and that’s the only reason, because this
19 attorney I found — I mean, I interviewed several,
Evan fumbled on his words above to quickly run around the subject and take control again over the conversation. It is not to say that people cannot lose their words or forget what they were going to say, however, this appears more as a fumble to gain control more than a verbalized speech blunder. Its deliberate because there is NO association between Monique and the attorney- an intended diversion. “to give it one more chance for all that has nothing to do with why Monique would tell him not to do it. She may have advised him to talk it over, however, she told him specifically- “you don’t want to do this.” For all they had been through could mean a recognition to them having been through enough with the divorces, split families and to leave well enough alone at the time. However, whatever they had been through had nothing to do with the lawyer….it’s a diversion and means to gain control over the conversation again.
20 and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch –
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — I could find, and all
23 he wants to do is get this out in the public as
24 fast as he can, as big as he can –
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
1 MR. CHANDLER: — and humiliate as many
2 people as he can, and he’s got a bad [tape
3 irregularity] –
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s
6 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
7 inaudible) he’s costing me a lot of money.
Here are the words of Evan himself. These words need no explanation other than for the public to understand the mindset of Evan Chandler. He interviewed several lawyers. He spent money to have this done. He had been coached on what to do and say. He found the “nastiest…SOB he could find” one to humiliate as many people as he can…Evan wants to destroy everyone who he thinks destroyed him. This is NOT about molestation, this IS about extortion. This is about one person and ONE person only. Evan Chandler. There is no way to mistake those words in this context, or based against anything else he said that would be contrary to it as everything he did up to that point and into the future was to support this plan of his. HE intended for it all to happen and did not care what it would do to anyone. He knew it was based on lies and this was why Monique was not in agreement with it. This statement is the very basis of all his actions and words from beginning to end of the situation- it was something he had in the works since June, 1993- or perhaps since the end of May when MJ began to distance himself from Evan. You can take any phrase he mentioned and place it against these statements and see what matches and what does not- the end results and events that occurred were in support of this plan and the final outcome. The truth is that he originally planned to get back at everyone, and obtain a lot of money in the process. Remember, you do not have to rehearse the truth or be coached on what to do or say. The truth is very powerful and even in the most conniving circumstances still rings through.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s
10 MR. CHANDLER: I think that’s great. I
11 think it’s terrific. The best. Because when
12 somebody — when somebody tells you that they don’t
13 want to talk to you –
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to talk to
16 them –
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to get their
19 attention. It’s a matter of life and death.
20 That’s how I’m taking it. I have to talk to them.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: This is life and death
23 for my son. I have to get their attention. If I
24 don’t get it, if I haven’t gotten it on the phone
25 and I don’t get it tomorrow –
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — this guy will
3 certainly get it. That’s the next step. And you
4 want to know something? I even have somebody after
5 him if he doesn’t [tape irregularity]. But I don’t
6 want [tape malfunctioned]. I’m not kidding. I
7 mean what I told you before.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: It’s true. I mean, it
10 could be a massacre if I don’t get what I want.
11 But I do believe this person will get what he
He said it was life or death for his son? Really? Not once has he yet expressed concern how Jordan will be affected. He did not talk about how damaging it would do to him to have this plan run out. Instead, Evan has talked about how he is alienated from everyone, but nothing about his own actions that got him to BE alienated. He expressed about how he really felt about his ex-wife and later on, his son. He talked about how he cried, how his bills were not paid, how everyone hurt Evan. How he wants to be a role model in Jordan’s life….life or death for Jordan? No, it was “life or death” to Evan and his existence as a father and a man.
The role model he presented is to do things with force and without concern for the truth- to do things dishonestly and this is the model he wanted for his son? To manipulate the situation to your own advantage, based on lies, to do whatever without any morality is the role model he wanted for his son. How he’s gotten someone to “go after” his lawyer if this does not produce what HE wanted…. oh my. How there will be a massacre if Evan does not get what he wanted. This is the very essence of a man who decided to harm so many people…..is a man of degraded character. It is not that people cannot do bad things, it is the choices we make to NOT do those things….that makes a good character.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: So he would just really
15 love [tape irregularity] nothing better than to
16 have this go forward. He is nasty, he is mean –
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — he is very smart
19 [tape irregularity], and he’s hungry for the
20 publicity [tape irregularity] better for him.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s where it’ll
23 go –
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think everyone
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) totally humiliate him in every way –
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: That — everyone doesn’t
4 lose in that?
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s not the issue.
Evan did not care “who loses”. He did not care who would be hurt….THIS is the role model he wants for Jordan….the consequences are “not the issue” since his plan would alleviate some financial difficulties….what a shame.
6 See, the issue is that if I have to go that far –
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — I can’t stop and
9 think “Who wins and who loses?”
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: All I can think about is
12 I only have one goal, and the goal is to get their
13 attention –
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — so that [tape
16 irregularity] concerns are, and as long as they
17 don’t want to talk to me, I can’t tell them what my
18 concerns are, so I have to go step by step, each
19 time escalating the attention-getting mechanism,
20 and that’s all I regard him as, as an
21 attention-getting mechanism.
22 Unfortunately, after that, it’s totally
23 out of [tape irregularity]. It’ll take on so much
24 momentum of its own that it’s going to be out of
25 all our control. It’s going to be monumentally
1 huge, and I’m not going to have any way to stop it.
2 No one else is either at that point. I mean, once
3 I make that phone call, this guy’s just going to
4 destroy everybody in site in any devious, nasty,
5 cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him
6 full authority to do that.
7 To go beyond tomorrow, that would mean
8 I have done every possible thing in my individual
9 power to tell them to sit down and talk to me; and
10 if they still [tape irregularity], I got to
11 escalate the attention-getting mechanism. He’s the
12 next one. I can’t go to somebody nice [tape
13 irregularity]. It doesn’t work with them. I
14 already found that out. Get some niceness and just
15 go fuck yourself.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
One goal was to get their attention? Really? “As long as they don’t talk to me I cant tell them my concerns?” It is all about Evan… “I can’t tell them MY concerns. They don’t talk to ME.” “Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everything in its path…” all his concerns are what he’s already expressed: that he is alienated from everyone, which he could have ensured on his own, expressed how Jordan did not look up to him, how he was jealous of the time his son wants to spend with MJ rather than with him….again, NOTHING about molestation. NOTHING. He did not seem to care about any consequences to no one but himself-no one to lose because Evan did not think he would lose because he planned it all “perfectly”. Evan did not present himself as being concerned for everyone involved but himself.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Basically, what they
18 have to know, ultimately, is that their lives are
19 over, if they don’t sit down. One way or the
20 other, it’ll either go to the next step or the
21 [tape irregularity]. I’m not stopping until I get
22 their attention.
23 Do I [tape irregularity] the only goal
24 is right now I have to do what I think is best for
25 Jordy –
What was best for Jordan was that their lives were over and destroyed if they don’t sit down and talk with him????
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I think what’s
3 going on now is bad for Jordy, and therefore any
4 alternative is better.
5 If I’m wrong, they should sit down, and
6 they should tell me why I’m wrong.
The only thing Evan stated that he thinks is bad for Jordan was that Evan was not involved in his life. He has said nothing about molestation, just about how June is ruining him and the time they have spent with MJ. “Any alternative is better”…which he said was to destroy everyone? THAT is better for Jordan? It was better for Jordan to be exposed to all the fighting, lies, plans to deceive, and being torn from people who cared about him?? To obtain money by lying? To ruin a man’s reputation is ok when it is based on lies? Two families torn apart by lies and major deception? These alternatives are better?? Evan did not care about the consequences- he said he would “win big time”….all these outcomes was winning or did he not think that these things could happen? What is certain is that he did not CARE….he said “ANY alternative IS BETTER”.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: But –
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: So wouldn’t you sit down
10 with me, and we could discuss it first?
11 MR. CHANDLER: No, because you don’t
12 know the issues.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you could tell
15 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
16 inaudible) totally ignorant of all the issues.
17 No. There’s really no way you could
18 relate these to somebody, you know.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah? Well, sure you
21 MR. CHANDLER: Like it’ll get related.
22 It’ll get related, you know. You’ll see it.
23 You’ll see it, and it’s not going to be up for me
24 or you to decide.
Schwartz asked Evan to explain to him what the circumstances are but yet Evan stated that “there is no way to relate it to somebody”. If Evan believed that Jordan was being molested, what exactly is there to explain? A normal parent would be very concerned if molestation was suspected, let alone seen. Then Evan stated that “it will all be related” and that “its not going to be up for me or you to decide”. Again, there is nothing to decide if there was suspected molestation. You would go to the police not a lawyer. The only issues Evan has relayed is how everyone won’t talk to him, how Jordan wants to spend time with MJ rather than him, but does not ever say how his behaviors have influenced that to happen. When you look at the history of Evan’s behaviors and litigation to violence towards David Schwartz, you can see even in this conversation how Evan is a difficult person to talk to and a very dangerous soul to contend with.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can you meet him here at
2 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, no. I’m going to
3 meet at the house.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why can’t you meet here?
5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, for one thing,
6 Michael has to be there.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Michael will
9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
10 inaudible) won’t be at Rent a Wreck.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael would come here.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, how do you know
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll see. I mean, if
15 he’ll come here, will you do it here?
16 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why?
Now Evan talked about how MJ has to be there. Once again, it is not logical nor practical to confront the alleged molester. General Consensus –A parent who has proof that their child is being molested would immediately contact the police, file a report and remove the child from the proximity of the perpetrator. (
But yet, Evan wanted to negotiate? A little look into the future from this date of the conversations to mid August would show that Evan did negotiate payment with Pellicano. It was allowed to prove that money was the motive- MJ had no intentions of paying out any money to him. There was a reason why Evan did not want to meet them at Schwartz’ business. He said earlier that he wanted it recorded. That means wherever he will be meeting them, it is already set up to be recorded and there may have not been enough time to set up another venue for recording. This is the logical mindset of someone who had a plan and wanted to stick with it and the concern that if they did deviate from the plan, it could have been messed up- which Evan stated he did not want to happen very clearly.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because it’s easier for
19 MR. CHANDLER: So you could be at work?
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. So I don’t have to
22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
23 inaudible) signals.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
25 MR. CHANDLER: You keep giving me
1 these –
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not crossed
3 signals. I’m telling you it’s — I’m here every
4 second. It’s difficult to get away.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you have to get
6 your priorities –
Remember, Evan told Schwartz, FK your job….Evan doesn’t care what anyone else has to do, remember, he wants to control the situation so it can go according to plan. His actions and words support his previous statements.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but my priority is
8 this, but, I mean, you can compromise for me.
9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
10 inaudible) tell me this is very difficult choice,
11 you know, your children or your work.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, it’s not a
13 difficult choice.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then –
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it’s just –
16 MR. CHANDLER: — the issue, then. Be
17 it –
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: It makes it — wait.
19 What’s the difference –
20 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
21 inaudible) work by 9:00 o’clock.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What is the difference
23 for you? I mean, it makes it easier for me. Is it
24 different for you?
25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Why is it
3 MR. CHANDLER: What if I told you their
4 house was wired?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Does that make a
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
9 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just saying, “What
12 if it was?”
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well –
14 MR. CHANDLER: Would that — would
15 you — could you see the [tape irregularity].
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Then you want to
17 record it.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that it
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
25 MR. CHANDLER: But let’s just say that
1 it was. Okay? That would make a difference.
Evan stated “I’m not saying it is”, but yet it is of the crucial importance to have the meeting there and he admitted earlier that he wanted the conversation tape recorded….Evan said he did not want to do or say anything that would go against the plan and the plan to meet at Schwartz’ work was NOT in the plan. Logically speaking, he said he had everything in place so to change up the meeting place would compromise the plans. This was Evan’s mindset and his words support it.
This part of the conversation is interesting.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. You got to do me
4 one favor.
5 MR. CHANDLER: What?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. The way we’ve
7 just talked is completely — the way you’ve sounded
8 is completely different than when I talked to you
9 the first time. I mean, you gotta be –
10 MR. CHANDLER: Well, (inaudible)
11 talking tomorrow, Dave.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
13 MR. CHANDLER: I told you, it’s all on
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: That’s why I’m bringing
17 a tape recorder.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but are you going
19 to be calm like this?
This part of the conversation would lend me to consider the possibility that the conversation between them was a practice run, but only in initial thought- however, this was stated for valid reasons. It is SCHWARTZ who says “you gotta do me one favor .. Okay. The way we’ve just talked is completely — the way you’ve sounded is completely different than when I talked to you the first time. I mean, you gotta be…well but are you going to be calm like this?” These statements could confirm that previously, Evan’s interaction with everyone has not been amiable and that Evan loses control over his actions. The conversation is too spontaneous to be a rehearsal, however, one should not put aside that Evan has mentioned that he has been educated on what to say and do when. The fact that Schwartz uses “WE” when he states “if WE have to read something…” and then discussing what would happen next…. Schwartz utilized more than in one reference- separate sentences, which means that there is a cognitive association with “WE” and the papers that Evan was going to give the others to read….
The next part is even more interesting because Evan’s answer is that he will have nothing to say and that everything is on the paper and he will have to say nothing. So now Evan and Schwartz talk like this as if to re-iterate what Evan is supposed to do during the meeting.
20 MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to say.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going to be
23 calm. I’m not going to be anything. I’m not going
24 to be — I’m going to be totally void of anything.
25 I’m just going to say, “Look. Here’s something for
1 you guys to read. You read it. You think it
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to sit down
5 and talk, we can all meet in my attorney’s office.”
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to tell me
8 to go fuck myself, then just let me know that” –
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — “and I’ll let him
11 know that’s what your feelings are.”
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why do you –
13 MR. CHANDLER: — and that has
14 to — that has to happen before 12:00 o’clock
15 tomorrow. They have to make that decision –
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And let me ask
17 you this –
18 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
19 inaudible) don’t hear from them about it, then the
20 wheels start –
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you have to have
22 Jordy there, if all we’re going to do is read it?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I tried to explain that
24 to you.
Here Schwartz stated again “if WE have to read something…” and they were going over what will happen if they don’t hear from them about it – again, a consideration that he was actually in on the plan, however, that may not have been the case as there are other possible meanings. Perhaps, he wanted to ensure that Evan would be in control over himself and his emotions. It can be thought of in more than one way. Then they discuss the reasoning to why Jordan has to be there-so Jordan can see his role model in action. Behaviorally speaking, it is possible that Schwartz was in on Evan’s plan somewhat or at least later on past July and the time of the conversation- and subsequent litigation after the settlement between Schwartz and Chandlers were very concerting. Did the parents promise money that was not discussed with Jordan and since Evan thought that if he had custody over Jordan that he would have a say in the funds received?
Jordan had received the bulk of the settlement, and his parents each received about 1.5 million each- after lawyers were paid, which was not Rothman, Feldman was the finishing lawyer. Jordan received the last installment in 1999, and he sought emancipation in 1996. June and David divorced and sued Evan Chandler for violence, money and because Evan “broke up the family” (sound familiar?)….and Evan counter-sued both June and Schwartz for invasion of privacy…..Evan and Monique divorced- what a mess and downfall in the aftermath. The subsequent events give some insight into these events to make them a little more clearer. The series of litigation between the Schwartz’ and Chandler, with consideration to both parties were divorced after the settlement was made and around the time when Jordan emancipated, speaks volumes. Note that this conversation came up in litigation when Schwartz sued Evan without June’s name on the litigation- this shows that June and Schwartz had separated or divorced completely….
However, if it is true that Evan had been belligerent and abusive towards June, David, MJ and Jordan, it is easily understood why David asks Evan to be calmer than how Evan had spoken to them before. It is very possible that David simply wanted some reassurance that Evan isn’t going to lose his self-control and harm anyone. The aspect of self-control does not explain why Schwartz used the words “WE” in reference to “the papers” Evan was going to give to the others.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. If we have to read
2 MR. CHANDLER: Because I explained that
3 to you. I want him to see how I’m behaving.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I want him to see how
6 I’m acting.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
8 have to have Michael there?
9 MR. CHANDLER: What’s that beeping
10 going on? Do you hear that?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Are you recording this?
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Do you hear the beeping?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let’s hang up.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
In this last part of the conversation, Evan seemed to have reassured David that he will maintain control when they all meet- which is a behavioral demonstration that Evan had lost control – either violently or verbally abusive or both. In this section, Evan suspected that the conversation was being tape recorded because of the beeping heard. There is no doubt that Evan would consider this in future conversations, as you will see how increasingly versed he will appear in the next conversation analysis. This aspect precisely means that Evan’s adjustments in his manner and words that he chose in the next conversations are increasingly adapted/modified. Furthermore, it is evidence that Evan was being schooled at the time and using every instance towards his planning and future decisions/interactions as the evidence is in how he speaks, by the words he chose and in his actions. Schwartz stated again, “If WE have to read a paper….”- if he was not in on it and it was only Evan’s plan (which Evan stated was not only his plan), then who is the ‘we’ that Schwartz would include himself? The only other possibility if Schwartz was not in on the plan, is that if he had not seen what was on the papers. Then, it also makes sense for him to say, “if ‘we’ have to read something.” However, the papers, as Evan explained, was for Jordan, June and MJ, and so this is an inconsistency to the “we” because the papers were not for HIM to address, but for the other three. Again, going back to the original question: What is the “we” David is referring to since the letters were not for him to address? Logically and behaviorally speaking, the inconsistency to the “we” when Schwartz was not included on the letters lends more greatly to the other possibilities. The possibilities are only something to consider.
The analysis is rather repetitive due to Evan going back and forth in talking about the same content, however, the repetition shows consistency in some respects to content. There are some definite inconsistencies that contradict certain things that Evan stated during his conversation to which actually prove MJ’s innocence. The contradictions show where there is behavioral incongruity, lies, distortions within. The point is to separate what is consistent, to what is not, with comparisons made to content and cross comparison to content and timing of events and there lies the truth. This is a behavioral analysis based on over 14 years experience in the behavioral field of psychology. YOU all can draw your own conclusions, can agree or not- what you believe is up to you. There are some serious points made in these analyses- you can believe and think it all through as you wish…. (Please realize that this part one contains the WHOLE transcript of the first conversation.)
To be continued…..
** With permission from the author, the link below goes to an article that is an amazing document with details I had not included in the analysis.