This is a continuation of the Chandler conversation analysis part one:
The second part to the taped conversations are again, in their entirety.
Portions of the Schwartz-Chandler tapes were released to media, however, it did not gain as much attention as it should have. Apparently, according to the media, extortion is not as an exciting issue as the suspense and speculation regarding the allegations. It is a shame that the media and crime professionals did not focus on the truth regarding the Schwartz-Chandler tapes with as much dedication as they do with “media spins”. As a result, the mass population believed that the tapes were “heavily” edited, and speculated that the tapes were not genuine in context and therefore made to APPEAR that the Chandlers were extorting money from MJ. Nothing could be further from the truth.
When you compare the edited versions to the actual transcript, the tape was edited to the point of interest, not to change the meaning. There is quite a difference when someone edits to get to the point versus to edit to create a sentence with different meaning than originally spoken. When you compare edits to Evan’s conversation that were released in the media, the statements of crucial points are in its entirety- meaning the actual sentences were not reconstructed, they were EVAN’s true words and expressions and nothing was taken out of context. The misconceptions regarding the genuineness of the edited materials further established doubts in the community. The lack of media interest to follow up on the tapes left many to speculate, leaving them hanging. It is nonetheless incorrect to believe that the tapes were “heavily edited”.
Here is an example of media coverage to the Schwartz-Chandler tapes- please pay very close attention to the lines and page numbers of the context:
Chandler: “This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief..” – line 16-17, page 200
Chandler: “He will not believe what is going to happen to him, beyond his worst nightmares” lines 17-21, page 200
Chandler: “He will not sell one more record” line 21-22, page 200
Here is the transcript section to which they are referring:
14 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
15 inaudible) Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s
16 career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated
17 beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not
18 believe what’s going to happen to him.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Beyond his worst
21 nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
Chandler did say all of these lines in succession coinciding with transcript lines 16-22 on page 200 and as you can see, it would have been more effective had they included all those lines: 14-22. It is in order and nothing was really “heavily edited” when you compare it to the transcript.
Continuing, the next part is from a different section of the transcript:
Chandler: “If I go through with this, I win big time…I will get everything that I want.”- is on lines 18-19 page 132; then with three dots between (which usually means there is either a pause or some impertinent words are missing) “I will get everything I want”-line 23 page 132: the lines in between. “They will be destroyed forever”- line 24-25, p. 132. Here is the section in the transcript:
18 I have nothing to gain by talking. If
19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no
20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say
22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I
24 want, and they will be totally — they will be
25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June
So as you can see, the media did edit out some between, and again, it would have been better to include it, however, but what was aired in the media does NOT compromise the integrity of the whole conversation in general meaning. If anything, THEY should have not edited those phrases. Especially the part when he said that he “checked everything out”. In the taped conversations, Evan stated over and over what his plans were, his thoughts motivating the fire behind them and he PLANNED just like he described by using professionals and it all was fueled by his desires to “hurt them the way they hurt” him. Evan DID EXPLOIT the situation with MJ to get revenge and ease his financial problems. Evan INTENDED to destroy them and his plan was well thought through. And that IS what Evan did.
In fact, Part one and Two have the entire transcript for you to see where the lines run for yourself. You can also find the entire transcript here: (http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/evan-chandler-and-david-schwarz-full-transcript/)
The general public may have disregarded or diminished the importance of the Chandler/Schwartz conversation in part due to the misconception that the tapes were “heavily edited” and possibly because the whole conversation and or transcript was not included or available to make comparisons at the time. Portions of this leaked conversation with Evan Chandler was disregarded by the public for a few reasons, however, these conversations should NOT be ignored.
Part of the truth is that when June and Schwartz taped these conversations, the tapes were PLAYED FOR Pellicano on July 9, 1993. Just because June and David went to Pellicano to play the tapes for him, it does not mean Pellicano provided the tapping and equipment to record the conversations as some have apparently assumed and we recognize it did not mean he hadn’t a part in providing it. We do not know whether Pellicano was asked to tape those conversations. Regardless, whether Pellicano did or not does not change the content on those tapes. In other words, since you can see the tape was not heavily edited, you can see that Pellicano had NOTHING to do with what EVAN himself said on those tapes.
It is important to remember that July 11th, Evan had taken custody of Jordan by tricking June into allowing Jordan to visit for “a week stay”, which Evan NEVER had the intention of returning him (according to the tapes, Evan was very vocal about how he did not want June to have custody over Jordan and said he would only allow June to see her son IF HE allowed it- said he wanted to hurt her deeply, as he felt she hurt him). Evan was supposed to return Jordan to June on July 18th, but he did not do that. On July 12th, a date after the tapes were played for Pellicano, Evan allowed Jordan to visit MJ. Why would EVAN allow Jordan to visit if he really believed MJ molested Jordan? So you see, the content in the tapes had nothing to do with molestation.
Furthermore, when Chandler had sued Schwartz over the tapes after the settlement – it included INVASION OF PRIVACY and if Pellicano had been a participant in the taping process, Chandler would have sued Pellicano also for invasion of privacy (what Evan did sue Pellicano for was the fact that Pellicano declared on TV that Chandler was EXTORTING money from MJ.), but as you see on the transcript, it states Evan Chandler vs. David Schwartz only and it did not include Pellicano. This gives the impression that Pellicano really did NOT have anything to do with providing the equipment or the one who actually taped the conversations or otherwise, Evan surely would have included Pellicano in on the lawsuit.
There is something to understand about Pellicano. Pellicano had a respectable reputation- and now people regard him in such a negative light since he was arrested and jailed. I caution the public to not judge Pellicano through hindsight. Whatever Pellicano is in jail for has nothing to do with MJ or the 1993 case, but unfortunately- people do pass judgement carrying well into the past. Pellicano had a good reputation and Pellicano’s troubles were almost a decade after the 1993 allegations, when he was going to stand up for MJ. The public must keep in mind that regardless of Pellicano’s role in the 1993 investigations, Pellicano had NOTHING to do with the content of what was SAID IN those tapes. The content was EVAN’s and Schwartz’ vocalized expressions. These are FACTS, logically derived by eliminating all the BS around it.
One more thing. Pellicano was WELL KNOWN many years for being THE private investigator amongst the stars. Everyone turned a blind eye to Pellicano’s methods UNTIL he began to stand up for MJ; once that happened, all of a sudden Pellicano was conveniently arrested. He would not have a had a job amongst them if he did not do his job right to protect them. Regardless of the fact of whether Pellicano used illegal tapping methods, it does not CHANGE the FACT that whatever was uncovered in the conversations was indeed in the parties own words. People in the tapes had their own free will to say the things they did. I cannot express it enough.
September 1, 1993, Private investigator Ernie Rizzo gave a statement to the media and accused Pellicano of doctoring the tapes to make it appear that Evan Chandler had been extorting money from MJ. Furthermore, Rizzo accused Pellicano of bribing the Chandlers when in reality, the reason why Pellicano negotiated money with Evan was to PROVE that Evan was after money (please see definition of extortion). The truth was that MJ was against paying off Evan from the beginning. (see our blog on Payout: Plain and Simple) The plant of doubts such as what Rizzo claimed helped cause lack of support from the public and media- possibly also police officials. Rizzo’s comments, surely, had influence in the public would believe, or at least ensure there was doubt.
When you read the entire transcript, there is NO doubt with Evan Chandler WAS fabricating a story to extort money from MJ. We provide an analysis for you to consider. These are analyses placed up against Evan’s own words and known behaviors. These were EVAN’s words….Plain and Simple, you can believe as you will.
Please keep these things in mind as you are reading these analyses.
the analysis continues…..
3 CONVERSATION 30
4 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
6 (Dial tone.)
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, Ev.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Hi, Dave.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: How you doing?
10 Thanks for calling me back.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. I’m in the car.
12 I’m on the way home.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Where are you?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’m at work.
16 MR. CHANDLER: You’re at [tape
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: You want to come by
20 MR. CHANDLER: No. I’m wasted, Man.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I’m — we
22 gotta talk this out.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Nothing to talk about.
(Chandler was complaining that everyone was ignoring him now said that there is nothing to talk about. Actually, this is the second call shared between them where Evan had the chance to talk to the others too. Evan CHOSE NOT to talk to the others and ONLY spoke to Schwartz. Anytime Schwartz asked Evan to speak to June and Jordan, he said NO. If he really wanted to “work it out”, he would be open to talking so this is a contradiction to when Evan said that he “really wanted to work it out.” So you see, Evan’s words are contradictory to his OWN words and actions.
Evan told David that he was “wasted”. A “convenient reason to not be able to leave his home to actually participate in Schwartz’ invitation. There was some information regarding Evan and his abuse of substances. There was references to it when Evan had committed suicide and all his vices: his own plastic surgeries to change his appearance in order to avoid scrutiny due to what he did to MJ, and extensive drug use.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Of course we can talk it
1 MR. CHANDLER: Just be there tomorrow
2 if you want to hear what I want to say. That’s
3 all. And if they’re not there, then there’s
4 nothing that anybody has to say, and that’s the end
5 of it.
(“Just be there if you want to hear what I want to say” alludes that Schwartz did not know entirely what Evan was going to talk about, so therefore, it is evidence that he was not initially PART of Evan’s plan at that point, as this is evidence that Schwartz did not know what was going to happen.
Evan has stated that if MJ did not show up, then he would be taking it to the next level, which is what Evan wanted. Behaviorally speaking, he demonstrated that he was unwilling to work it out with anyone else but with MJ- otherwise he would talk to whoever he needed to when offered. He said that “MJ was the one he wanted” and therefore had MORE interest to talking to him than June or Jordan. So who really was the “unwilling” party?
In a few days from the time of the conversation, Evan already had June and Jordan “where he wanted them”, for Evan took custody of Jordan on July 12th. He had therefore already planned to do that part, felt he could talk June into allowing Jordan to visit him, and was not worried about that part of his plan. Evan stated previously, in Part One, that if they – including MJ- did not show up at the meeting, then he would make that phone call to get the rest of the stages going. In the passage above, Evan stated “And if they are not there, then there’s nothing they have to say and that is the end of it.” When Evan said “the end of it” he was meaning that the lack of response was his answer to take it up to the next level. Evan had no intentions of dropping it or “ending” anything. Evan was set to go through with his plan if they all did not show up.)
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: What if like, say, June
10 and I are there?
11 MR. CHANDLER: No good.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
13 MR. CHANDLER: They all have to be
(Evan said again, “they all have to be there”. This is again, evidence that Evan would talk to them ONLY if MJ was present. Evan’s complained that no one would talk to him, but you see Evan’s issue was whether or not they would all attend. So Evan was not willing to talk to THEM UNLESS MJ was present. When Evan said he was so willing to talk is not entirely true. The point is EVAN was not willing unless MJ was going to be there. Evan repeated it several times.
Evan stated that on the voicemail, if they did not talk to him, then they would “get hurt”, so once he left that message, it could have given them reason for caution. However, MJ was busy preparing for the Dangerous tour, so it is not likely that MJ refused to meet with them with the intention to upset Evan. At least, it was not until the evening of July 9th when MJ realized Evan was up to no good. The point is that before July 9th, MJ had no idea what was going on. MJ probably had a very busy schedule due to the upcoming tour, but after July 9th, who could blame MJ if he did not run to meet Evan to talk at the drop of a dime?
As it turned out, MJ was not available to meet with Evan, June and Jordan until August 4th, 1993. The Chandler-Schwartz conversations were played for Pellicano on July 9th and that was the first time that MJ became aware that something was wrong. In Part One, Evan stated himself that MJ would not know what hit him, that it’s a fact that MJ WAS UNAWARE there was any serious issues. (paraphrasing here). So really, how much did Evan try to talk to MJ about an “issue” as he stated he tried? Not very likely at all. If you remember, MJ was scheduled to go on tour mid August and Evan said in Part One that he was going to stop June and Jordan from attending. Evan did precisely that.
You see, during these conversations in July, Schwartz was asking Evan to talk to June and Jordan and EVAN said no, because he wanted MJ there. If it were really vital for him to work things out with his FAMILY, like he claimed was of ultimate importance, he would have been taking the opportunity to talk to THEM the moment they were ready to talk. Several times, Evan stated basically that when you care about someone , you talk to them- and so you see, Evan was NOT interested in talking to his family and most certainly, not without MJ. Evan stated very clearly that MJ was the one he wanted and that he was going to destroy June, Jordan and MJ with his plan. Evan said he had a plan that he had been implementing and that WAS his focus. He verbalized his desire to have a closer family, but was behaving inconsistent with what any of those actions might be if that statement were true.)
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: They all have to be
17 In fact, if anybody were missing, it
18 would be June that I wouldn’t care the most.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Who?
20 MR. CHANDLER: June. The one that I
21 car the most about —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. How about if
23 Jordy and I go?
24 MR. CHANDLER: No. Jordy and you?
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
1 MR. CHANDLER: And me?
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: No.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s silly. No.
6 Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there.
7 He’s the main one. He’s the one I want.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
9 he’s a bad guy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: He’s an evil guy. He’s
13 worse than bad.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
15 believe that?
16 MR. CHANDLER: Huh?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you believe that?
18 MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence to
19 prove it.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: You’ll believe it, too,
22 when you hear —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Let me ask you
24 something. I mean, you trust me, right?
25 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
1 this way, Dave. Nobody in this world was allowed
2 to come between this family of June, me and Jordy.
3 That was the hard [tape irregularity] be the
4 opposite. That’s evil. That’s one reason why he’s
6 I spoke to him about it, Dave. I even
7 told him that [tape irregularity] the family.
(There you have it again. Evan stated MJ was the one he really wanted to get to and as stated in Part one, Evan wanted June and Jordan there to give them the papers he made for each. Evan’s plan was predicated on them all being there at the same time, so you see, EVAN was NOT willing to compromise his PLAN. It would have not been in EVAN’s best interests to meet with any of them without the other, as he repeatedly expressed. Evan wanted to make it seem like he was doing it for the betterment of his son, but his other statements and actions belie any statement and action to confirm that he was “protecting” his son. EVAN was NOT willing to meet with THEM like he claimed he was. He was only willing to meet if they were all there. When Evan said that MJ was the one he wanted, his actions prove that is the case. Remember, Evan expressed hatred towards June as he felt that June was coming between him and Jordan. So he planned to take custody from her and influence her son to not see her anymore. Evan stated that June would not see Jordan ever again, unless he allowed it. Evan was angry with MJ for not supporting him and his career and because Jordan was idolizing him, so Evan hurt MJ’s career and reputation. Evan was hurt that Jordan did not value him as he did everyone else, so he turned Jordan away from those he loved.
Evan felt MJ broke up the family and was spending time with Jordan that was supposedly slated to have been spent with Evan. MJ did not always extend an invitation to Evan when the family was visiting, which was his choice, and as you can see, Evan did not respect his choices. MJ had spent time with Jordan, June and Evan but that changed when Evan began asking MJ about money and to do things for them. Remember Evan had asked MJ to build an extension to his home so they all would have more room when MJ visited. Everything was fine until MJ distanced himself from Evan and when MJ did not do what Evan “wanted out of the relationship”.
Evan said he has proof and when Schwartz “hears it” he would believe it too and you see the content he associated that with? He associated MJ being “evil” because he believed that MJ broke up the family, notice he said NOTHING about molestation. Considering the 1993 allegations were about “molestation”, he NEVER mentioned it as a reason during these taped conversations. Evan talked about everything else. Evan previously stated how Jordan did not consider Evan a role model, how he felt Jordan disrespected him as a father. In Evan’s eyes, June allowed Jordan to visit MJ on the slated times that Jordan was supposed to see his father. Jordan WANTED and CHOSE to visit MJ over his father. THIS is WHY Evan thought that MJ broke up the family, and he reasoned that if MJ was not there, or in the picture, then their family life would be fine as then, Jordan would not have a choice to visit MJ anymore. Evan then created the situation to where MJ would not want to be involved with them AND so that June and Jordan COULD NOT have the option to have MJ in their lives.
If this was about molestation, any normal caring parent would have gone to the authorities, but instead, remember, Evan made a plan, was coached on what to say, got information on how to report abuse by third party (from his lawyer), had constantly consulted a lawyer (rather than police) and did not want to say or do anything that would implicate him. If it were true that MJ had molested his son, he would not have to devise a plan to report it through a third party in order to receive any kind of compensation or “damages” in litigation. You would simply just report it and not need any “plan”. So far, still. Evan has said nothing about molestation to Schwartz. Evan’s main complaint is that “MJ broke up the family”- he said nothing about molestation. This is important because if molestation was the issue, he would be talking about that rather than how “MJ broke up the family”.)
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: When did you talk to
10 MR. CHANDLER: About that?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Months ago. When I
13 first met him I told him that.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the law. That’s
16 the first thing he knew. Nobody’s allowed to do
17 that. Now there’s no family anymore.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I mean
20 Jordy’s — Jordy’s my life. Period.
(Evan was pretty clear in this passage that he blamed MJ for the “break up” of his family, but it was impossible for MJ to have broken up what was already broken. Evan was married to Monique, June to Schwartz. Jordan was not close to either Schwartz OR Evan- as so it seems by these tapes. They had their issues well before MJ came into their lives. Evan was upset that Jordan was seeing MJ as a positive role model and he made that clear in these taped conversations. It is not MJ’s fault for what he walked into when he befriended the Chandlers and Schwartz families. Everything was fine between all of them with MJ’s presence UNTIL MJ distanced himself from Evan and until MJ did not “give what [Evan] wanted out of the relationship”. Jordan stated that the first time Evan met MJ was May, 1993, but Jordan and June was talking to MJ since the summer of 1992! Things fell apart AFTER MJ met Evan. It is possible that Evan had been harboring negative emotions towards Jordan and June because they had been interacting with MJ LONG before MJ met Evan- so was there was a jealousy factor involved? Another possible motive and fuel to the fire. When MJ distanced himself in June 1993 from Evan, it made Evan angry at him. But you see, the moment Evan met MJ, he stated “what he wanted out of the relationship”. He wanted MJ to build an extension to his home for when MJ visited and when that did not work out, he asked MJ to buy a bigger home for them. It is possible that MJ distanced himself from Evan because he felt Evan wanted to use him than appreciate him.
Evan said that “Jordan is his life”, but he has stated how he had not been there like he should and he realized how Jordan was not as close to him as he wanted. These were Evan’s main complaints, which he refused to take any responsibility. Evan has explained how everyone else was “making him do” what he was doing. He’s said how HE had not paid his bills, not working, not “taking care of things”, and HE was pushing all that responsibility and accountability on everyone else as he said repeatedly “They are making me do this”. Avoiding one’s own responsibility and accountability is a dysfunctional behavior when to this extreme- the individual does not make any association of their actions, decisions to outcomes and therefore will not make appropriate decisions to remedy the situation because they view everything that happened to them as the result of others behaviors and decisions. But you see, he said “Jordan was his life” yet, how can Evan say someone is your life and then have a plan that will hurt them?)
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it.
22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
23 inaudible) my life.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it?
1 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t. It doesn’t.
2 I don’t know how it’ll help it. It can’t hurt it
3 anymore. It’s — I have — that’s why I have
4 nothing to lose.
5 I made this really clear to them. If
6 they’re all there, we could all sit and talk. If
7 they’re not there —
(Evan KNEW that what he was about to do was going to things worse for some people- he recognized “it doesn’t help” but he did not care. He knew that what he had been doing already started that in motion. He stated he has nothing to lose and he knew it would not help his son, who he said was his world, but history indicates that even though Evan recognized that “it does not help” did not stop him from going forward in his plan. Evan said Jordan was his world, but he wanted to tear his world apart by taking June and MJ away from him and he did not any consequences. If his child was his world, he should do what is best for his child, not the things he planned. Then Evan stated “It can’t hurt anymore” because he said himself, if he went through with his plan, he would “win big time….I would get everything I want.” Evan’s plan would only help himself-temporarily at best.
When Evan stated “it can’t hurt it anymore”, it demonstrated he did not care what his plan would do to his son or his family, and his mindset was around “winning big time”, so behaviorally, this demonstrates he did not believe what he was doing could do any more damage because of his thought to his prospective benefit by going through with his plan. The solution was all about EVAN and his needs, which he thought would alleviate and solve his own issues financially and with Jordan, as a man and father. That is pathological thinking to plan something at another’s expense. He WANTED to believe that was happened was worse, as that was his mindset as to hi, it was worse. Whatever was going on there was not MJ’s fault.
Evan said he “has nothing to lose” and this is a surprising response coming from someone who said he wanted to make things better for his son- but you see, in Evan’s mind, his plan would accomplish several things for himself: to get MJ out of the family, custody over Jordan, financial gain, and he’d hurt June, Jordan and MJ in the process. THAT is what he SAID he would do and THAT is what he did exactly. Every one of Evan’s ACTIONS supported what he wanted to accomplish. Evan’s goals were about improvement in his own situation, regardless what it did to anyone else. It is important to understand Evan’s mindset at the time. He previously said “if I go through with this, I WIN BIG TIME”- “I” all about himself. Evan believed that when Jordan attended the meeting that somehow it would miraculously make Jordan view him as a hero. Based on what Evan said in the first conversation: “He [Jordan] has to be there to see it and he will say, yeah, he was honest, with integrity” and as apparent in Evan’s mindset, by Jordan seeing all that happen, Evan thought that Jordan would come to hold his father in the light Evan wished to be. It is not wrong to want to be a role model for your child, but it should never be at the expense of others.)
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask —
10 MR. CHANDLER: — taking it out of my
11 hands, and there won’t be any talking anymore.
12 They have a chance. They have a chance to talk it
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: If they’re not in a
16 calm, peaceful manner —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — even said you can be
19 there. You could be there. I’m not going to do
20 anything with you there. Michael can come with 20
21 bodyguards and all with guns if he wants to. He
22 can even come there with his [tape irregularity].
23 I don’t care. All I’m saying is everybody who’s a
24 party to this (inaudible) sit down and talk about
(This part is a bit revealing. Evan brought up how everyone will sit down and talk about it and that Evan was not going to do anything while Evan was there. By talking about bodyguards and control of emotions, Evan practically admitted that he had been out of control when trying to speak to anyone. Evan was not known as a very calm person, and in fact, Schwartz had sued Evan for bodily harm. It was also known that June and Evan had divorced due to Evan’s temper and ways of dealing with the family. So if they were cautious or apprehensive to talk to Evan, his temper could have been the reason why.
Evan alluded Schwartz was not part of it, and that Evan was not going to “do anything with him there” is possible evidence that Evan lost control over his behavior before and it could have been the reason why they were cautious about talking to him- that is IF Evan really tried to contact them as he said he did.
Remember, Evan only wanted to meet with them IF MJ would show up, so Evan was intent on keeping control over the situation by NOT meeting with Jordan or June without MJ there. Think about what could happen if Evan were to meet with Jordan and June, and they could actually clear up some issues? Then were would Evan’s plan be? Evan stated repeatedly that they would not talk to him, but Evan said himself, “MJ has to be there” when they meet, re-iterating that Evan’s plan was futile unless he could talk to them about the issues AT THE SAME TIME. This means, Evan did not try to talk to them as he said he did because if he revealed too much of his plan, June and Jordan could have warned MJ or vice versa. If Evan talked to them and they could work things out, then the situation was not so volatile and then he could not blame MJ for “breaking up the family.”
Here is some BS about “the law” and breaking up the family -Schwartz had married June and Evan was married to Monique-the family was already broken up and compromised, perhaps already fragile, yet Evan’s relationship with Schwartz was not as threatened as he was by MJ’s presence in their lives. Why is that? Evan was only threatened by MJ’s presence in Jordan’s life, not so much threatened by Schwartz. Jordan idolized MJ, looked up to him and visited him over seeing his father. Evan even diminished Schwartz’ role in Jordan’s life when Schwartz told him that Jordan was copying him.
It was not MJ’s fault that their situation was as it was.)
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t disagree
2 with that.
3 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, we’re not. See,
5 now —
6 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t want to be
7 there, then they have made it to the point where I
8 can’t talk to them about it —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — so I have to force
11 them to the table —
(When Schwartz asked Evan if he would talk to Jordan and June, it seems it could have EASILY been arranged- so how difficult was it for Evan to get them to talk or what was the real reason that he would feel the need to “force them to the table”? Evan kept on repeating that THEY would not talk, THEY were forcing HIM to do what he was planning, as if repeating it was making it more true than the first 100 times he said it- but who would not talk to them unless all three were going to be there and who was threatening/forceful? It is like he is convincing himself or something by repeating himself so much. Though clinically speaking, his repetition means something, such as whether he was practicing by repeating. You see, Evan ONLY wanted to meet with them if MJ was there too, so again, the need to “force them” was an exaggeration.
The issue was that Evan had a plan, a devious one and in order for it to be as HE wanted it to go, he had to talk to all of them together perhaps so they could not warn each other or prepare anything against his plan. Behaviorally, this shows intention, planning and reasoning. Behaviorally, it also demonstrates that he was creating a situation and that all his complaints that “they would not talk to him” was not as extreme as he expressed.)
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, no. I don’t
13 disagree with everyone sits down and talks about
15 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s what I’m
16 calling — that’s what I called him about. Hello?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, that was the
18 message on the machine?
19 MR. CHANDLER: No. The man — yeah.
20 That was the message on the machine. It said
21 they’d better be there, because on the other times
22 they tried — hello?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: The other times I tried
25 to tell them that I needed to talk to them, all I
1 got was, “Go fuck yourself. We’re not talking to
3 So now I had to let them know and make
4 sure that they know they’d [tape irregularity]
5 they’re gonna get hurt by it, so (inaudible) — I
6 had to make [tape irregularity] if they don’t sit
7 down and talk to me they’re gonna get hurt. They
8 can’t keep telling me to go fuck myself anymore.
9 They have to talk. I want to talk to them. I
10 don’t want to hurt anybody. They’re forcing me to
11 do it. They’re forcing me to do it by refusing to
12 sit down and talk to me. That’s all I ask for.
13 “You sit down and you talk to me [tape
14 irregularity] side of the story, I’ll listen to
15 yours, we all sit down and see how it could be
This part is important to understand: Evan Expressed clearly: ” I don’t want to hurt anybody.” This makes no sense behaviorally because a man who thinks his child is being molested WOULD want to hurt somebody! The point is, the 1993 allegations were surrounding molestation and Evan’s explanation is that “THEY are forcing him to do it because THEY ARE NOT TALKING TO HIM” and that he DID NOT want to hurt anyone, which has in explanation, NOTHING to do with molestation. Evan explained he was being forced to hurt everyone was because they were not talking to him, not because of any suspected or known molestation, and surely his motivation was NOT from his fatherly love, nor his righteous indignation that HIS child has been harmed. Not ONE word about molestation, but instead, his anger by how they have not included him with MJ events, . He didn’t want to hurt MJ because MJ never did what he was gonna accuse him of.. THATs what that means. .. but because MJ wouldn’t talk to him , he was FORCED to do what he did. .. Good lord all mighty.
Evan said he left a message for “him”, and yet he kept on bouncing between saying “him” to “them”, saying that they kept telling him to “fk himself” but this is not the language they would use. Evan was clearly embellishing and projecting his own inner emotions about how Evan felt about them. This was July when MJ was most likely busy preparing for the upcoming tour. It is crazy to expect MJ to have much time to talk on the drop of a dime during preparations for his tour. For someone MJ just met a couple months prior, to expect MJ to call right back right away seems an unrealistic expectation.
Notice Evan said something threatening on the message. He said at lines 24- 7 that if they did not come talk that they were going to get hurt by not talking to him. A really aggressive manner to open up a conversation, don’t you think?
Schwartz had stated he was not around much at the time, so perhaps Schwartz would not know how many times or exactly when Evan called them or not and perhaps this is why Evan allowed these conversations to happen. Regardless, with what we do know, Schwartz asked Evan many times to talk to them and he refused. It is clear that Evan did not want to talk to them unless MJ was there. It shows intention and focus.
Evan expressed it is important for them to listen to him, talk to him, but you see, it is only on on his terms, based on his plan, and all that he had done to ensure that it happens that way. These are not the actions of a loving parent or someone who loves the people involved. The bottom line is that the 1993 allegations came about because Evan did not get what he wanted prior to making the allegations. In all that Glitters, which Ray Chandler stated (paraphrase) if MJ had paid the 20 million that summer, he would have spent the next ten years known as the greatest entertainer rather than the most infamous child molester. (Chandler, 2004, from all that glitters, p. 128) RC’s statement verifies that the allegations against MJ was an extortion for he described the very definition of extortion in his words and associated those words to the 20 million demand….)
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So that’s
18 there —
19 MR. CHANDLER: That’s all I ask for.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —
21 MR. CHANDLER: Michael can come with
22 all his bodyguards and his lawyer if he wants to.
23 I don’t really care, as long as everything gets
24 aired out. That’s it. And if I walk away
25 dissatisfied, then I’ll take it to the next step.
(Again, Evan brought up bodyguards and talking things out with MJ. Evan’s focus was MJ, “MJ is the one I want, he said, and he meant it. All that talk about working it out with the family and if someone cares, they talk to you about things was to make Schwartz think that Evan actually cared about Jordan and his family. Evan did not want to “work things out” with his family, his focus was clearly MJ. Again, if this was about molestation, what is there to “work out”?
This is where he states that if he is dissatisfied with the conversation, then he will take it a step further. What is there to satisfy other than justice if someone really believed that their child was being harmed? Evan’s actions and behaviors are very inconsistent with a normal parental reaction to molestation, but very consistent with extortion. If HE walks away dissatisfied, then he would take it to the next step?
Some very important words there, because it shows intent, that he had planned it, and that if he was not happy with how the interaction went, then he would take it to the next step. (History shows the events Evan acted upon). If this situation was about molestation, wouldn’t Evan already be “dissatisfied” with MJ so why would it take a “dissatisfying” conversation for him to feel that way if he really believed MJ molested his son? Any normal parent would not be saying these things or responding in this way.
1 That’s all. If they walk away dissatisfied, they
2 have the right to do that, too. At least [tape
3 irregularity] nothing will get resolved except for
4 the fact that we’ll agree to meet again and talk
5 about it.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
(Did not care if they were “dissatisfied” …or really, the appropriate word would have been upset, beyond incensed. Evan demonstrated the lack of concern what his plan would do to anyone.
Evan stated that “nothing would get resolved except for the fact that we’ll agree to meet again and talk about it.” How the hell you resolve molestation?? After a “dissatisfying” conversation that he seemed to have been anticipating, but he knew that there would be more talking…as in NEGOTIATIONS. Negotiations for the things he wanted to get out of the situation. It was exactly where Evan wanted to go. He knew that whatever was going to happen, they WOULD talk to him again as he then would have them where he wanted them.
If someone molested your child, what is there to negotiate or talk about? You’d go to the police, file charges, and it would go to trial. What is there to negotiate? All Evan had spoken about how he felt alienated, his financial issues, and issues with relating to his son. Here, Evan demonstrated focus on future conversations regarding the content in the papers he would give to each Jordan, June and MJ.
We had explored what could have been on”the papers” in Part One in reasoning and analysis indicating separate content for each one. Evan stated that he would give them each a paper and then they would have to make a decision alluding that the content was different because Evan mentioned about “comparing papers”. That actually did mean separate content. The focus then is future talks, or therefore “negotiations”. Subsequently, that is exactly what happened. Evan met with Pellicano, Rothman, MJ and Jordan to discuss payment. The fact payment was discussed was only to prove that Evan was after money. MJ never intended on paying him, as he said no to the 20 million payout. MJ presented a counteroffer with a significant less amount and ONE screenplay deal, which Evan rejected. If money was not the issue, then Evan would have taken the counter offer. Instead, Evan took Jordan to Dr. Abrams to make the accusations. When Dr. Abrams’ report to DCFS “leaked to the papers”, MJ said all negotiations were off and was going to fight the allegations. So you see, Evan was set on getting to the negotiation part and set to go through with his plan to ease his difficulties.)
7 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know where it’ll
8 go, but I’m saying is that when people — when
9 you — when people cut off communication totally,
10 you only have two choices: To forget about them,
11 or you get frustrated by their action. I can’t
12 forget about them. I love them. That’s it. I
13 don’t like them. I still love Jordy, but I do not
14 like them because I do not like the people that
15 they’ve become, but I do love them, and because I
16 love them I don’t want to see them [tape
17 irregularity]. That’s why I was willing to talk.
18 I have nothing to gain by talking. If
19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no
20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.
(The point of the meeting is not to gain resolution but only to the one he wants and there was “nothing for him to gain by talking” meant aside from “negotiations”! Evan was asked to talk to them and he refused because MJ was not going to be there if he only spoke to June and Jordan. This shows that behaviorally, Evan knew therefore he could have talked to his family and straightened some issues out, but that was not going to satisfy his plan in its entirety. This is evidence that Evan KNEW that he was exaggerating about the communication between him and June. If he worked something out with them, then there would not have been the strife between them to fuel it, which he needed the fuel against June and MJ. He would have then risked June or Jordan warning MJ if he did not control his content. He then risked his reason to go through with the plan, since he said “they won’t talk to him”. Evan said that he had a plan that was thought through. “He checked it inside and out”, received professional advice that he well paid for, spent money he did not have, a plan that “was not just his” etc. In Part One, Evan stated that his lawyer said that if he talked to anyone, then not to return to him, and so that was motivation for him to try to not talk to anyone, since he shopped around to find his lawyer. Evan said all of this in the first conversation, now saying it in the subsequent phone calls with Schwartz.
He wanted money. He negotiated with MJ for screenplays. He wanted custody of Jordan because it was Jordan who would receive most of that money as he was certain “he would win” this case. He was not interested in really talking about anything but what HE WANTS out of it all. In the last conversation, Evan said he was going to present some papers to each of them and then THEY have a decision to make- statements that were written on paper, statements that were coached and demonstrate how well he was instructed. These are not the actions of someone who was telling the truth because you do not have to be coached or instructed or worried that what you may say or do would “implicate” you.
He said that he won’t say or do anything that would implicate him or mess things up. Again, not a normal parental reaction about a suspected molestation. You can see by what he says of the content about what the issues are to Evan and what he wants resolved. He needed money, was alienated from everyone and his plan based on what he thought would alleviate his issues. He was not interested in repairing his relationship with his son, or making it stronger through means that would have actually facilitated. Instead, he said he wanted to destroy everyone and somehow he thinks that Jordan would not be affected by it.
“I have nothing to gain by talking. If I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.” Is self- explanatory. Evan shopped for the lawyer, planned every moment from every angle and was so sure of his plan. “IF”? now there’s an interesting word.. IF?? why wouldn’t he IF MJ really hurt his child.. there would be NO IF!!! There is NO mistake in Evan’s words. Evan said there was nothing to gain by talking, but the only person he wanted to “talk” to was MJ and he wanted to have everyone else present as part of his plan.)
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say
22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I
24 want, and they will be totally — they will be
25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June
1 is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to
2 ever see him again.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
(Evan stated many times that by doing what he was doing would get him “everything he wants” and that he “will win big time”: money and custody of Jordan. Here is the crux of part of what he wanted. In the process, he WANTED to destroy them. Including MJ. Including Jordan. Including the members of the family….you cannot say you love someone and destroy them at the same time. “She will have no right to see him ever again”… was Evan’s true intention. As it turned out, Jordan did not speak to his mother since the settlement, as June stated in the 2005 trial.
Evan definitely succeed in ruining relationships all around him. Evan reveled in the aspect that his ex-wife would not see Jordan again? When Schwartz asked Evan how it would help Jordan and what things would do to him, Evan stated “it was irrelevant”. These words are incompatible to when Evan said Jordan was his life, his world and how he loved him very much. Ask yourselves whether this is a response a loving parent says about the very one they are supposed to be “protecting”.)
4 MR. CHANDLER: That’s a fact, Dave.
5 That’s what —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help —
7 MR. CHANDLER: — Michael the career
8 will be over.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help
14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I mean the
16 bottom line is —
17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line to me
18 is, yes, June is harming him, and Michael is
19 harming him. I can prove that, and I will prove
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — and if they force me
23 to go to court about it, I will [tape
24 irregularity], and I will be granted custody. She
25 will have no rights whatsoever.
(“MJ’s career will be over” and about helping Jordan, he said it was “Irrelevant to me”….he does not care what his plan will do to everyone- especially the son Evan claims to be “protecting”. Evan complained how they would not talk to him, how Jordan placed MJ as his role model instead of Evan, and how MJ had not done anything he “wanted out of the relationship” and when asked whether he knew with certainty that MJ molested Jordan he stated “I don’t know” and the “proof” he had was NOT pertaining to molestation as revealed in Part One.
Evan stated very clearly here that he did not want June to have custody, let alone ever see her son again, and how he wanted to ruin MJ’s career. Remember, Evan said that he wanted to “hurt them the way they hurt him” in Part One. Basically, in a nut shell: Jordan held MJ as a role model and looked up to him. So Evan made a plan to take away people Jordan cared about and loved and succeeded. June allowed Jordan to see MJ on weekends and times that he was supposed to visit his father, and Jordan CHOSE to visit MJ over his father. Evan’s response was to tear apart Jordan’s bond away from June and steal custody from her because he felt that she should have not allowed Jordan to see MJ during the time they were supposed to spend together. Again, these were Evan’s explanations, which have NOTHING to do with molestation. MJ was the role model Jordan adopted and adapted to, so Evan took MJ away from Jordan. Evan also plotted to ruin MJ’s career and reputation because Evan felt that MJ ruined Evan’s reputation as a father and role model. As you can see, Evan expressed all of this AND behaved in ways to make it happen for the reasons he stated. This is all Evan’s words analyzed to his own behaviors.
Again with the forcing..?” THEY forced me to go to court ” So it’s not the situation of a man molesting your child..that “forced” you to go to court? What did they go to court for? Custody and the civil suit for money. Once he had that, Evan was NOT interested in JUSTICE. ANY parent who believes their child was molested WANTS JUSTICE. Any chance Evan had to bring justice to MJ, he did not take. These actions speaks VOLUMES. A person who is interested in the emotional and physical welfare of their child genuinely, does not behave in the manner that Evan did. Evan had only claimed June and MJ have hurt Jordan by excluding Evan and by not talking to Evan. June allowed Jordan to spend time with MJ on days he was meant to see his father. Evan stated how Jordan was modeling after MJ and how he wanted to be his role model instead. The content of Evan’s complaints contained nothing of molestation. He had spoken about needing money to pay his bills, blaming others because he was not working due to being “troubled” by events, that “they” were not talking to him or including him, and talking about how Jordan disrespects him and does not spend time with him and how Jordan would have rather spent time with MJ rather than Evan. Evan’s actions were not that of a loving parent, but someone acting from greed, envy and jealousy. He stated that he can “prove that June and MJ were harming Jordan” – that is harming Jordan by coming between the relationship between father and son. Evan has expressed this many times during these recordings. June allowed Jordan to see MJ during times when Jordan was supposed to see his father. Jordan PREFERRED to see MJ, chose to visit MJ when invited and was clearly more interested in maintaining a relationship with MJ rather than his own father. This is how Evan believed that June and MJ were hurting Jordan….)
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Now, I’m willing to sit
3 down and talk to her. If she wants to tell me to
4 go fuck myself after that, she’s welcome to do it,
5 and then she’ll either be right or wrong. [tape
6 irregularity] I’ll win, maybe I’ll lose. I have
7 the [tape irregularity]
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: [tape irregularity] for
10 MR. CHANDLER: Forget the custody
11 thing. It’s gonna go further than that.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what’s the
13 bottom — I mean, what is the bottom line, though?
14 MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is, I
16 mean, your responsibility and my responsibility —
17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line
18 (simultaneous, inaudible) what I want?
(The bottom line should be his child and his family and yet Evan said “forget about the custody thing” and that it would go beyond that. If he was interested in preserving the family he thinks he has lost, he would be talking to them any chance he got, he would not be planning to hurt anyone nor to take custody away from his ex wife. But you see, he does not think his ex-wife has anything of value to Jordan, does not care what it would mean to Jordan – His only interest is “what HE wants” which he has stated was “to destroy and hurt everyone who has hurt him, make them suffer”, like they “did to him”. He said “I will win big time.” He means money, custody of Jordan and EVERYTHING HE wants to happen. This situation was clearly not about Jordan, but a means to get Evan what he “want”-ed. Evan was very focused on “what he wanted”, not what was best for anyone else.)
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: No —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Is that what you’re
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean —
23 MR. CHANDLER: — what I want?
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, what’s our
25 responsibility in life, really?
1 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you don’t have any
2 right —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: The kids is the number
4 one —
5 MR. CHANDLER: — to discuss that.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
7 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right
8 to discuss that.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
10 MR. CHANDLER: You’re a negligent
11 father. You don’t have a right, by your own
12 admission before. You told me that you were
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: You were negligent to
16 Jordy, and you’ve been negligent to Kelly.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: In a court — in a court
19 of law, June could prove you negligent in one flat
20 fucking second.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So?
22 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right
23 to all of a sudden decide that you’re going to be a
24 good father or have a conversation about what’s
25 right to do. I’ve never condemned you for it. I
(Here he put Schwartz on the defensive by the word fking right because Schwartz was basically telling him that what Evan was doing was wrong and that Evan should be “responsible” .. interesting word.. because if he was going to the police.. he WOULD be acting responsively but Evan didn’t want the police involved just yet. If Evan had the evidence that MJ molested his child he would not have to shop around for professionals nor take his son for mulitple assessments. Evan only did all that when it suited HIS PLAN to get money and used sodium amytal to entice his son to say false statements. The sodium amytal incident was in July and he did not take Jordan to see any psychologist/psychiatrist until he was ordered to return Jordan in August 1993. If a parent believed their son was molested, you do not waste this time to set your story up if it were true. He used professionals as practice and education for his son so their story was believable. In the Gardner assessment, Jordan changed his story, could not remember any details, and just made statements which he relied on his parents to “fill in” the rest. Fill in information that they were NOT witness to. Don’t forget the practice run with Gardner allowed Evan to manipulate the story so as Jordan would NOT implicate HIM. Jordan stated in the Dr. Gardner interview that MJ had molested him during the time MJ and Jordan were at Evan’s house. When Jordan made the declaration in December to make allegations against MJ, Jordan left out that information where he said MJ molested him at his father’s house. Remember, Evan received education and information on how to report abuse WITHOUT liability to a parent. When Jordan said in the Dr. Gardner interview that he was molested by MJ while at his father’s house, he IMPLICATED Evan in responsibility, just as Evan wanted to claim that JUNE was responsible because molestation happened while he HER care because she allowed Jordan to visit MJ. This is why we believe that Evan used Dr. Gardner’s interview as instructional for him and Jordan.
Further, he put everyone in position to where they felt they had to support Evan, when in reality, Evan was going to screw them all up and destroy everyone based on LIES.)
1 know what you’re going through [tape irregularity]
2 that. I understand you have to stay away in order
3 to be a normal human being. I understand that, but
4 no one’s gonna give a shit about that in court.
5 You and I live [tape irregularity] but
6 I’m still living through it every day at my office,
7 and it’s just bad for me too, believe me, and I
8 understand you really well, and I know why [tape
9 irregularity] she’ll make you look bad in one
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I don’t disagree
12 with that.
Simple projection here- saying that Schwartz does not have the right to all of a sudden become a doting and caring parent, when that was the same thing Evan was doing? Evan was unforgiving to Schwartz in this passage. In the first conversation, Evan was saying how Schwartz was not at fault, and here he stated that “He has no right”?? OMG, this is a huge contradiction and an indication that he was out to destroy even Schwartz in his plan.
Evan said “he never condemned [Schwartz] for it”, but you see he does condemns Schwartz if he wanted to change to be a good father, yet remember what Evan said about “taking control of the situation” based on what “experts” have told him? EVAN was doing that very thing and using the situation to his advantage, yet he placed a guilt trip on Schwartz. He’s fabricated the whole situation, but yet is turning responsibility on Schwartz to take focus off what he is doing. Guilt trips, deliberately hurting people and everything that Evan had done so far are all actions of someone who is egocentric, narcissistic and driven by greed, envy, jealousy and dishonesty. A loving, well rounded parent does not deliberately destroy anyone around them. The projection is simply his own mirrored reflection and a very telling one at that. Again, pitting Schwartz against them once more.)
13 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, this time
14 it’s gonna be the other way around because
15 she — you see, I love him so much that I’m willing
16 to destroy my own life to protect him —
(Everything that Evan was doing at the time was not ruining his own life, it was ruining the lives of everyone around him, including Jordan and the people he claimed he loved. Evan boasted that he would “win big time” so he did not perceive that what he was doing was harming everyone. If Evan had been challenged in court with the events that were happening and found to have lied, then, yes, it would have destroyed Evan too, however, if all Evan was doing were based on the truth, then there would not have been any such risk. But you see, Evan had a plan devised (he picked “the nastiest SOB he could find”) so that he would not implicate himself (had everything written out and orchestrated -coached-according to those plans), and had education and guidance from professionals who were paid well- Evan had stated that very clearly in these conversations. By using professionals and paying them well, the risks were then diminished. The truth was that Evan did not perceive what he was doing as harm to anyone and was sure that he would “win” based on the “quality” of that plan he had implemented.)
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — to do what I think is
19 the best thing to do, not just — it’s not what I
20 think. I’ve gotten professional [tape
21 irregularity] everybody agrees that the only thing
22 that was insane is that I didn’t step in a long —
“Everybody agrees that was insane he did not step in a long time…” considering that if this situation were really about a suspected molestation, it does not make sense that any parent would wait to step in. It makes much more sense that “everybody agrees that the only thing that was insane was that he did not step in a long time…” was about the quality of the relationship with his son. Furthermore, if Evan really believed MJ molested his son- the professionals would be mandated to report the molestation as well as Evan for neglect and abuse if he continued to “do nothing about it”. You see, if a professional has reason to believe that a parent is negligent deliberately in the care of a child, especially considering whether a parent knows a child is being molested and not doing anything about it, they can bring charges on the parent for neglect and abuse. So if Evan spoke to any professionals about Jordan, the family situation, or whatever else, it was certainly NOT about molestation or otherwise, if a mandated reporter, they would HAVE to report it within 24 hours. Evan was clear when he stated that neither he nor Schwartz would be “responsible”. His plan was to gain custody of Jordan and relieve his financial burdens, and to go by his plan exactly as they had it. So it is very safe to conclude that any conversations with psych professionals were definitely not about molestation.
Here is the thing about “mandated reporting: professionals are only obligated to report claims of serious abuse IF the preliminary interview is reasonable to be fairly certain the events occurred to warrant a report. If molestation or sexual abuse was reasonable and believed, then they are MANDATED to report it within 24 hours. However, there are considerations to evaluate whether the situation is based in truth and for that reason, not every circumstance is reported. The ethics codes in psychology are very detailed and strict regarding reporting abuse. Remember, the 1993 situation was supposed to have been centered around molestation, however, as you read with Evan’s own words, there is nothing he stated about molestation.)
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: This is —
24 MR. CHANDLER: This is —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: — detrimental to him?
1 MR. CHANDLER: Extremely harmful to
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Everybody agrees with
5 that. I mean, they — it’s their opinions that
6 have convinced me to not stay away.
(“convinced me to not stay away”? Again, this is very inconsistent if the situation were truly about molestation. No parent in their right mind would hesitate nor allow anything to continue if molestation were suspected or found. Evan was talking about the role of a father in a child’s life, bills he needed to pay and being alienated from the family.)
7 You know, I’m not confrontational.
8 I’ve got an [tape irregularity] inclination to do
9 what you do, say, “Okay. Go fuck yourself. Go do
10 what you want to do, and, you know, call me some
11 day. I’ll see you then. I got a [tape
12 irregularity],” but I’ve been so convinced by
13 professional opinions that I have been negligent in
14 not stepping in sooner that now it’s made me
15 insane. Now I actually feel [tape irregularity] —
“…convinced by professional opinions that I have been negligent in not stepping in sooner…” As if a professional would have to convince a parent to bring charges against someone who was suspected to have molested their son??? In reality, that is not a choice when it comes to mandated reporting because a mandated reporter does not need parental consent- it is why they call it MANDATED reporters….
This is where anyone can tell that the situation has nothing to do with molestation and more to do with Evan’s ego as a father. Evan has spoken more about how the situation affects him rather than Jordan, and had stated some strong insights into how Evan thinks and expresses well what he is thinking.)
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I do, and I —
17 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]
18 more important than the money, if the kid’s more
19 important that you are, and they’re more important
20 than I am —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: And they are.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Then —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But let me ask —
24 MR. CHANDLER: — by action, Dave.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, but —
1 MR. CHANDLER: Staying away from the
2 family is not a good way of indicating that you
3 care about your family. It’s a copout, and you —
(So now we get to an underlying issue…..Evan was saying that no one will talk to him, however, here he revealed that HE as well as Schwartz, was staying away from the family, but because Evan “stepped in sooner” than Schwartz, then that made him a better person? Well, that was seemingly what Evan alluded. Seems like there is some passive-aggressiveness going on from his part. It is possible that Evan was creating the distance to manipulate the situation for support to his plans.)
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t know if
5 it’s a copout. It might be the —
6 MR. CHANDLER: My feeling is, Dave, my
7 feeling is that when you have really good
8 communication with somebody, you don’t have to stay
9 away from them.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what happens when
11 you —
12 MR. CHANDLER: — agree, but at least
13 you could talk. You know, as long as you’re
14 talking, nobody’s gonna get hurt. When the talking
15 stops, that’s when people get hurt.
(Simple projection- Evan is declaring that when they don’t talk to him, that is when people will get hurt. It shows where his mind was at during the process in his planning. He could have been trying to stay away to decrease communication purposefully, and with the aggression he has when Evan did talk to people, it further alienated them, which in turn fueled his plans- perhaps taking the non-communication as a sign that he had to take it further- which WAS what HE wanted to do anyway. When he had chances to talk to his family HE did not take them. THEY were willing to talk to him- he wasn’t because of what he wanted and how he wanted to get it.)
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And that’s what
17 happened with you?
18 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, that’s what
19 happened with me. They won’t return my phone
20 calls. June called me once last week.
(They won’t return phone calls, but she called him back once- or once that he will reveal? It is possible that the ONE time he did call that week, that June returned his call which would demonstrate the willingness to talk to him. Evan did not want to talk to them separately, he wanted to talk to them only if MJ was going to be present. He said “talking would get him no where”. HE just said it was HIM staying away from the family. He protested one thing, but what he was showing in the content of his own words was that HE was manipulating the situation to his control.)
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: She told me to go fuck
23 myself. Not in those words.
(Here Evan stated that June said go FK yourself, but not in those words, so she did not tell him any such thing-whatever she did say, it is apparent he wanted to believe that she was being aggressive to him and pushing him away. Otherwise, he would have had to admit that she was willing to talk to him. Evan was exaggerating. Whatever they spoke about, there is an apparent disagreement- one disagreement that we know was true is that she did not agree with Evan that MJ was harming their son. The month before, in June, his ex-wife told Evan that they would be going on tour with MJ. Since MJ was distancing himself from Evan and his family wanted to go (which he was not invited), Evan was preparing this plan of his. Evan was asking Jordan not to do something (not go on tour with MJ) and he had asked June to not allow it. He had no viable reason to tell them to NOT go- which is why he only ASKED them to not go. If MJ was harming Jordan, there is no way either parent would allow Jordan (or their other children) to be in MJ’s presence.)
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: But you don’t have to
1 say it in those words.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: But you know June.
3 MR. CHANDLER: I —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know her
5 thing is that she has to get the last word in.
(“Getting the last word in?” How would that equate to her telling him to fk himself? Exaggerations are stretched truths. Behaviorally speaking, this is a demonstration of manipulation and/or Evan’s perception of their interactions. Evan was not a stupid man- certainly not for him to devise such a horrid plan to destroy anyone. At this point, he was trying to use whatever explanation to validate the justification he had to do whatever he was doing. When something is true and you have a valid reason, you do not have to exaggerate anything to do it anything because the circumstance alone would indicate cause and reasoning to justification. In this case, there is no cause, no reasoning, no justification and this is why Evan had to go through these extremes to justify it.)
6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, she isn’t this
7 time, Dave, and you want to know something —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you put her
9 down for that?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Do I put her down?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: For that?
12 MR. CHANDLER: I never did before, but
13 when her getting her last word is now going to be
14 harmful to Jordy, yes, I am going to step in, and,
15 again, I’m not telling you this is my — my opinion
16 was formed by —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — but this is my
19 perception of [tape irregularity] professional
20 opinions to make sure I wasn’t going off the deep
21 end here.
(Again, Evan is stating that professionals are putting him up to this, however, in the case of a suspected molestation, they would not need to convince anyone- they are mandated reporters. They do not need permission to report abuse. Once again, Evan has not said anything about molestation, so the situation reveals that Evan is striving for something else to solve another problem. Evan was someone who did not take responsibility or accountability for his actions, and this statement by saying it was professionals who were putting him up to this is another demonstration of that denial of accountability. Psychologically speaking, Evan had a need to have professional support to his plan, so inadvertently, he could have been using that aspect to provide “justification” to what he was doing. Behaviorally speaking when you are “in the right”, you don’t need to justify your actions or words. The situation will give that on its own. This means that Evan knew he was wrong for doing what he did.)
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: And all I’m telling you
24 is — I’ve always said this to June, and I’ve said
25 this to Monique also, and I’ll say this to anybody
1 I can. No matter what I do, you’re wrong
2 automatically if you don’t sit down and talk about
3 it, because my feeling is [tape irregularity] and
4 you [tape irregularity] talk anything will be
5 worked out. But as soon as you cut off
6 communication you only frustrate the other person.
7 And that makes — and that makes you wrong [tape
8 irregularity] worse that way.
9 You say to them, “I don’t care enough
10 about you to sit down and talk.”
If Evan believed that anything could be worked out without having to manipulate the situation, then he would have talked to his family when the situation presented itself. Evan was creating a situation where they would not want to talk to him, where they could not talk to him and by doing so, he was exerting his power to remain in control of how things were going to play out.
In this conversation, Evan had said some contradictory statements to his actions and words which allow insight into what he was thinking and why. When I set Evan’s words against what he did, against the timeline, the interpretation will be much clearer.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t disagree with
13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s all I was
14 asking. I’ve asked them for a month to sit down
15 and talk to me, and I’m very disturbed and very
16 concerned. I want them to hear my concerns.
(“I’ve asked them for a month – a month? Now you might think that time is of the essence when someone suspects their child is being molested, they cannot afford to allow them to visit the person and to obtain justice should begin immediately, but you see, instead, Evan allowed Jordan to see MJ while he was in his care in July 1993 and he spent months setting MJ up so Evan could obtain money to solve his money problems. Evan shopped for professionals to help him with the allegations all throughout the process.
Evan wants them to hear his concerns, however, only on his terms and in his manner- in his control. He again used the word “I” alluding to that he was not interested in whatever they had to say. Course he was concerned, he had some serious issues to settle, such as financial obligations. He was not involved in his work as he should have been, so I am sure those issues were pressing. He stated that he had spent a lot of money he “did not have” with all his professional consultations. He saw this situation as a means to get out of his financial troubles. Remember, he owed June 68K in child support and later had given her a paper stating that while Jordan was in his custody, he no longer owed her money. (Hughes, 2004)
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Let them just tell me
19 why I’m wrong. Let them just tell me that [tape
20 irregularity] detrimental, et cetera. Let them
21 just tell me that. And maybe I’ll disagree with
22 them, and then we’ll take it from there.
(Evan was not thinking he was wrong for anything that he did, yet he had all these professionals to back him up- to justify his actions. He had no intentions of agreeing with them, he already had a plan and was set on implementing it. “Let them tell me why I am wrong.” He already knew the answer to that question. In the first conversation, Evan stated that he had a plan, that he was going through with it, especially if no one was talking to him or if he did not get what he wanted out of it. MJ had distanced himself, he was the one Evan wanted to get and he wanted custody of Jordan. If he had custody of Jordan, he no longer had to pay child support and if he went through with his plan, Jordan would get money. If Evan had Jordan, then he thought he would have some influence over his finances. Either way, in his mind, as long as he had custody of Jordan, his money problems were solved. He stated, “If I go through with this, I win big time.” He was certain of that, and he was certain he would have all he wanted.)
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But at least you can
24 talk about it.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, they will
1 not talk.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) forced me —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
6 MR. CHANDLER: What do I do? I mean,
7 in the opinion of these experts, I would be a
8 negligent father if I did not do what I am now
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, in their
12 opinion I have been negligent not to put a stop to
13 [tape irregularity] opinion.
14 I happen to agree with them now. I
15 didn’t agree with them at first.
16 Michael [tape irregularity] nice [tape
17 irregularity] —
(These statements are contradictory. Evan sought out the “nastiest SOB’s he could find…” he went shopping for someone who would get him what he wanted. Evan said, “he had people in place to do what was planned with ONE phone call.” which means, he went shopping for them too. Once that happened, it “was out of his hands”. So Evan saying he did not initially agree with them is false, he went shopping for someone who would agree with HIM to do what HE wanted to accomplish.)
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why do you think he’s
19 not nice?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Why? Because he broke
21 up the family, that’s why.
(So here it is again, Evan believed MJ broke up the family, which is why he “would have been negligent for not stepping in sooner”. The situation had nothing to do with molestation. If he had been talking to professionals about a real molestation, they would have had to report it if they were in the psychology profession. Evan’s main complaints were that Jordan was not spending time with him, that Jordan was visiting MJ on days that he was supposed to be with his father. Those decisions were allowed by JUNE. June could have advised her son to spend the time slated for his dad when it was time to make him accountable, however, perhaps she was not the type of parent to control their child in that manner. It is possible that she may not have understood that by allowing it, it would have set the groundwork for Evan to “feel” alienated. Granted we are responsible for our own feelings, however, it is possible that since Jordan wanted to spend time with MJ rather than his own father, that June wanted to have someone in Jordan’s life who he did look up to if Evan was not a “father” to Jordan. Sometimes, we do not realize the repercussions of our actions, however, perhaps June wanted to allow her son to interact with someone that Jordan wanted to be around- she obviously felt MJ was a good person for her son to interact with to allow it. It could have been harmful if she did not allow Jordan to have his friends as he wished to spend time with them- especially when the person in question is a good person and a positive influence. There could have been so many reasons why she allowed it, however, to allow someone their autonomy and allow a teenager to make some decisions in their life is not necessarily wrong. Considering that MJ spent time with both Evan and Jordan as well as separate time that MJ spent with her and Jordan, perhaps she felt she did not need to worry about who was spending time where and when. If June had forced her son to spend time with someone they did not want to, that could also have been harmful in so many ways.
Since MJ had distanced himself from Evan, this is the only time that Evan objected to Jordan spending time with him. Everything was fine when MJ was spending time with him and Jordan. Remember that.)
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: And he was put on notice
24 from the first sentence out of my mouth was,
25 “Michael, I think you’re really a great guy.
1 You’re welcome into the family, as long as you are
2 who you seem to be, but don’t take anything [tape
3 irregularity].” I mean, that to me was the worst
4 thing anybody could do to me.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think he did it?
6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, Dave, if he wasn’t
7 in the picture, everything would be as it was.
8 I’m not —
(Here is the demonstration that Evan felt alienated from them. Evan was no longer included in outings or time spent with MJ and his son. Evan objected to the tour because Jordan would be away for months and Evan apparently was not invited to go. Jealousy. Evan was jealous of the time Jordan was spending with MJ – especially when he was not included. “If he was not in the picture, everything would be as it was”….)
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: But that’s sort of —
10 MR. CHANDLER: — saying that he did it
11 premeditatively, and I’m not saying he did it on
12 his own.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m saying that he might
15 have — it might have just evolved that way, and it
16 might have evolved that [tape irregularity] desire,
17 so I’m blaming all three of them, but when I come
18 to that [tape irregularity], it really makes me
19 hate June because the family was inviolate, [tape
20 irregularity] felt about it. There was nothing I
22 I mean, you came in this family and
23 made it better. It was great. Someone else comes
24 along and breaks it up.
25 You know how [tape irregularity].
1 Okay. So do I [tape irregularity] coming into the
2 family who’s going to do good things for the
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean —
5 MR. CHANDLER: Michael divided and
6 conquered, Dave.
(hmmm. Ray Chandler in the Bashir tape makes a point of saying how “beautiful” jordan was and even goes so far as to say the Michael probably wanted to sleep with Jordan the first time he laid eyes on him- however, this behavior would indicate pre-mediatation. So here is a contradiction to his brother’s words. First, Evan stated that MJ did not do anything premeditated but then he stated that MJ divided and conquered. These are contradictory statements considering if someone were to divide an conquer, then that requires planning and thought behind it and something that requires planning is premeditated. If something “just evolved”, it was not premeditated. If he believed that MJ did not do anything on purpose and the situation “just evolved”, then it is impossible that MJ divided and conquered- which means it is irrational to say that MJ broke up the family by dividing and conquering. Evan stated that “MJ was the one he wanted” contradicts that he blamed all three considering that when it came time to talking, he wanted all three there and that MJ HAD to show up. Evan stated repeatedly that he did not want to just talk to Jordan and June, MJ HAD to be there too. What does support that he blamed all three was what he did to hurt each of them. Evan went after MJ for money- money is what he negotiated and when he did not get what he wanted, Evan made the allegations public. In order to have control over Jordan, Evan TOOK custody and made June sign a paper that stated while Jordan was in Evan’s custody, he would not have to pay child support and there was s stipulation in that paper that said Evan no longer owed June child support. (Hughes, 2004) And Evan hurt Jordan by taking away his mother and MJ. Evan hurt June by causing a rift between her and her son and taking away custody. So seriously, who divided and conquered again? Surely, not MJ.
So in essence, Evan did not believe that MJ broke up the family, he believed that THEY all did and he said they all did not want to talk to him or include him, so the plan Evan devised was to “hurt all three the way they hurt him” and that IS exactly what Evan’s plan did; Evan demonstrated that he used that situation as a means to and end.)
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: He what?
8 MR. CHANDLER: He divided and
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
11 MR. CHANDLER: He did, Dave. He did.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh —
13 MR. CHANDLER: June and I agreed on the
14 issue, whether it was her side or my side. If we
15 both thought the same way [tape irregularity] any
16 frustration. The fact is we both do not think the
17 same way, and he — and I sincerely believe that he
18 either consciously [tape irregularity] manipulated
19 that. I think he consciously manipulated that
20 because Michael Jackson [tape irregularity] the
21 smartest streetwise people —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — that I’ve ever met,
24 and if you sit down and have any long conversations
25 with him, [tape irregularity] that guy is extremely
(Evan initially states that June and him were in agreement that MJ broke up the family, but then states “the truth is that June and I do not agree”. So June did not agree that MJ was hurting the family, which is the reason for the dissension between Evan and June.
It would have been interesting to read all of the words when Evan said “and I sincerely believe that he either consciously [tape irregularity] manipulated that. I think he consciously manipulated that” because just moments before, Evan said that MJ did not consciously plan anything, but then contradicted himself and here I am certain he contradicted again based on the content in the words that are transcribed. Nonetheless, two contradictions leading to the same thought is a mirror to what Evan was really thinking. Evan knew that MJ did not do anything, it was his first expressive thought, but his explanation detailed how he “believed” MJ “divided and conquered”- which Evan knew was not true- and now Evan provided the “support” that MJ is “streetwise, smart and therefore able to “divide and conquer”. The truth is that MJ did not do anything premeditated and that Evan was using the situation as a means to an end.
Also these words here that Evan used to describe MJ were the words JORDAN used during his conversation with Dr. Gardner. That analysis will follow later on.)
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So is that good or bad?
3 MR. CHANDLER: That he’s bright?
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I think that if you use
6 it for bad then you’re evil.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, do you think he’s
9 MR. CHANDLER: Do I what?
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know him a
11 lot better than I know him. I don’t know him. I
12 mean, I’ve talked to him a couple times, but —
13 MR. CHANDLER: I thought I knew him.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think he’s
16 MR. CHANDLER: I think he’s totally
17 insensitive. I think he’s sensitive — I think
18 he’s an extremely selfish person.
(words that Jordan used in his conversation with Dr. Gardner)
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that he
20 knows what was going on?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Of course he knows that.
(Evan would have to conclude that “MJ knows that” if he is going to sell to Schwartz that MJ divided and conquered. However, Evan stated that “MJ won’t know what hit him, he will be embarrassed and humiliated beyond belief” contradicts that MJ would anticipate what was about to happen. Which means inadvertently, that it was not possible that MJ divided and conquered. If MJ manipulated the situation, divided and conquered, or knew what was happening, he might have been able to anticipate repercussions. The fact was that MJ did not do anything, nor did he divide and conquer, so he would have had no reason to anticipate repercussions and in no doubt would not have known what hit him.)
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, this is the
23 bottom line. The bottom line is I abandoned the
25 MR. CHANDLER: What?
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is I
2 abandoned the family. That’s the bottom line.
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) line —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: — so this is —
6 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line
7 is — the bottom line is he took Jordy out of the
8 family with June’s help.
(Evan stated another contradiction to what he initially stated about premeditation on MJ’s part. He just said now that “he took Jordy out of the family with June’s help.” which contradicts his statement with the situation “evolving”.
But what he is telling the truth is that the situation did EVOLVE. Evan’s plan is what evolved based on his belief that he blamed all three for breaking up the family. He wanted to get back at all three of them and hurt them the way he was hurt. THAT is the truth when you read between the lines and take out the BS and contradictory statements.)
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, yes and no, but, I
10 mean, there’s a lot of things, and I — I mean,
11 you’re bright, you’re sensitive —
12 MR. CHANDLER: Why don’t I put it this
13 way, Dave. If you were there all the time, living
14 in that house —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have
17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right. It
18 wouldn’t have even had a chance to happen.
(Now Evan placed blame on Schwartz by saying if he was there that “it would not have happened”. Evan probably also felt that if HE was there, then it would not have happened. IF Evan was there, with June and Jordan, HE would have been invited to go on tour also and he WOULD have been included in invites when MJ was spending time with the family. Schwartz was not there all of the time, so he was not invited as well. MJ was considerate to family, there were many times where he took a whole family with him to different places.)
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have
20 happened, and I — it’s all my fault.
21 MR. CHANDLER: No, it isn’t all your
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is definitely a
24 hundred percent my fault.
25 MR. CHANDLER: I’ll tell you what.
1 Whenever you have an argument with somebody, when I
2 have an argument with Monique, when you have an
3 argument with June, if I have an argument with you,
4 it’s rarely one sided. There’s almost — you know,
5 there’s always two sides to every —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. There’s ten sides
7 to every —
8 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
9 inaudible) you can’t tell me, realistically, that
10 June didn’t frustrate the hell out of you so many
11 times that you finally left the house just to be
12 sane, just to be alone and come back to your own
13 sanity to get anyplace with her.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I agree
15 with that completely, but the only thing is
16 what — see, I haven’t only done it with June. I
17 do it in every other relationship and in my work
19 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then —
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: So it’s my hangup.
Who is dividing and conquering again? Here Evan places Schwartz against June and targeting on Schwartz’s “weakness” in relationships.
21 MR. CHANDLER: — problem with that,
22 then that problem has ultimately ended up bringing
23 the family to this point. But you’re not solely to
24 blame for it. It doesn’t mean that June was
25 still — I didn’t do anything that — they didn’t
1 have the right to take my kid away from me, to
2 break up the family.
(Evan clearly wanted Schwartz on his side as if he were, then he might have some influence on June which he would need some banding together later on. Evan’s plan went more smoothly when he had June where he wanted, when he had taken Jordan in custody and he obviously was trying to use Schwartz to accomplish something. In a couple days time from this conversation, June had agreed to allow Jordan to spend some time with Evan. The timing of this conversation with Schwartz was something Evan COULD have used to HIS advantage. It is possible. Considering that Evan was the one who was dividing and conquering, it is very possible that he used this conversation with Schwartz for his plans. It may have not been actually planned that way, but it is apparent that Evan was using these conversations to his advantage. Otherwise, he would not have taken the time to talk to Schwartz. He said he did not want to “do anything” that would mess up his plans, so it is simply possible that Evan considered what these conversations could do to support his plan.)
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
4 I’m in my garage. Can I call you back
5 from the house?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: At the same number?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: If I don’t call you back
10 in five minutes it means it’s off my pager. Call
11 me at the house.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
13 MR. CHANDLER: I’m in the garage right
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Bye.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
Stay tuned for Part 3…
Jordan’s Declaration, Dec, 1993:
Evan Chandler-David Schwartz transcript of entire phone conversations: