16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is not old enough
18 to make these kind of [tape irregularity] that he’s
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: But is that a huge life
22 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, you bet it is.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you — were
24 you — let me ask you this: Did you ever pull away
25 from your parents when you were a teenager?
1 MR. CHANDLER: I hated my parents.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think Jordy hates
4 MR. CHANDLER: If he doesn’t, he’s
5 gonna hate me tomorrow.
Here Evan stated that Jordan was not “old enough” to make “decisions”, but yet this is the same Jordan who helped his father write the screenplay: “Robin Hood: Men In Tights” (set to be released July 28th). The content in that movie was full of sexual innuendos, off colored jokes, especially regarding sex and homosexuality, and other adult content, and though Jordan helped write it, but yet Evan stated here that Jordan was not “old enough” to make “certain decisions”? Jordan was old enough to understand the jokes and innuendos in that script, helped his father write it, and surely he was old enough to decide with who he wanted to spend his fun time. Besides, it is not uncommon to give 13 year olds some leeway in decision making to prepare them for adulthood. Furthermore, Jordan said to Dr. Gardner of his father that all Evan wanted to do was write screenplays. Not much fun nor was it fair for Jordan to live his father’s dream. Evan was about controlling Jordan right down to what they did during the time Jordan visited him.
The relationship between MJ, June and Jordan (as well as Jordan’s other half siblings) had been maintained for perhaps a year, but Evan had played upon the emotions of losing friendships should MJ simply decide to leave them all. It seems everything was fine with all of them until Evan started this mess.
Jordan had claimed many times, he was only friends with MJ which demonstrated Jordan (and of course MJ) knew appropriate boundaries and maintained them. Evan was now using Jordan’s age saying that he was not mature enough and yet, Evan would use Jordan’s age against him as a teen child to force him to make false accusations. As clearly seen in this case, Evan used any opportunity and angle against people when it suited himself most. The truth is, no one in Jordan’s family had any issues with Jordan’s friendship with MJ. Evan didn’t have a problem until MJ refused to give him money, refused to support Evan’s career, and since Evan drugged MJ up that May and subsequently, since distanced himself that May. In Evan’s mind, because Evan was not close to MJ, he then could not ask for things he wanted of MJ and felt betrayed (without foundation) when MJ distanced himself from Evan. Evan knew the reason why MJ distanced himself, but he blamed that on Jordan and June as indicated in these conversations. This whole situation was about money and Evan’s needs as said before.
Evan said: “He [Jordan] is going to hate me tomorrow” because Evan was manipulating the situation for his own personal gain, not Jordan’s benefit and at the expense of innocent people. Evan was going to ruin and hurt them all, severing relationships and tarnishing reputations for no valid reason, so he knew very well Jordan would be angry. ALL of Evan’s allegations against everyone were lies and the product of his own imagination – such as when Evan stated: “Imagination will kill you”. Evan himself knew it, he was just sure he would fool everyone and felt his plan was iron-clad. The point is Evan didn’t care what it would do as long as he got what HE wanted. Evan’s actions were not for Jordan’s benefit.
Surely, if a child was being molested by someone, and if a parent made effort to a stop to it, there would be no reason for the child to be angry at the parent. But you see, Jordan did not hate MJ, he spent a lot of time with him, emulated him, and called him his friend. ANY child who has TRULY been molested does NOT want to even hear that person’s name let alone SPEND TIME with that person. Evan wanted to ruin MJ because he felt MJ was “taking Evan’s place” as a father and Evan’s feelings were of jealousy and envy regarding MJ. Evan wanted to be Jordan’s role model, hero and the one Jordan emulated. Surely, if MJ was acting inappropriately with him that Jordan would be angry at MJ and would choose not to visit him on his own, without others telling him so, but Jordan wanted to visit MJ and Evan hated them both for it. Jordan obviously had a clear understanding of boundaries when he helped Evan write “Men in Tights”, but you see, the relationship between Jordan and MJ was not inappropriate in any way and Evan was well aware of that. Evan knew his plans of lies were going to destroy his son and the lives of June and MJ also, so of course Evan could anticipate how they would feel but he didn’t care as Evan’s needs and desires were worth “everything he wanted” at the expense of others. Here, in this part of the conversation, Evan was trying to manipulate Schwartz into believing he had honorable reasons and needed Schwartz on his side. Evan stated many times that Jordan’s interests and benefit was “Irrelevant” and yet he wanted Schwartz to believe he was “the only sane parent acting on Jordan’s best interests”. Evan was acting in his own interests. He did not care what his actions would do to anyone.
The aspect to divide and conquer is systematic, the goal of doing so is to isolate an individual from others. In the manipulator’s eyes, if that person is isolated, then they don’t have access to people who can recognize the problem and help and the manipulator surely don’t want someone to expose the manipulations or reasons for it. Evan was using the dividing and conquer manipulations to accomplish several different aspects and stages for his plans to work. Evan needed June, Jordan and Schwartz on his side to complete the division and conquer stages and to get to the step where he really wanted to be at: to negotiate for money from MJ and have Jordan to himself in order to control the money he anticipated having. Evan used situations (family dynamics, human emotions, fears, and behavior) to his advantage in every way. He drugged TWO people to manipulate them- Evan had no boundaries as to what HE would do to get what he wanted. He said, if he did not get what he wanted, it would “be a massacre” and he wanted them all to suffer. Evan divided and conquered ALL of them. Each action Evan did was to ensure his plans were successful regardless of concern of the expense of everyone else because his needs and desires were above everything else. Evan said it was “life or death” situation, and though he said it was for Jordan, he really meant HIS life and THEIR demise.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
8 inaudible) to —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want that?
10 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t matter what I
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why would you want
13 him to hate you, and why would you want to put him
14 through that —
15 MR. CHANDLER: Because all I care about
16 is what happens to him in the long run.
David had to ask his question twice for Evan to give an answer that was nonetheless a lie anyway. It was all about what “Evan wanted”, so he lied when he said that it did not matter what he wanted and that all he was doing was for Jordan’s best interests. Evan stated that it does not matter what he wants, but yet, he had spent a lot of time talking about all he wanted, and then stated that all that matters is what happens for Jordan in the long run??? Really? All of Evan’s plans were about what Evan wanted for his life, not Jordan’s. Evan said the effect, help or benefit to Jordan was irrelevant. Evan stated repeatedly that if he went through with his plan, “HE would WIN big time.” HE would not lose. HE would get everything HE wanted: June, Jordan and MJ destroyed, humiliated beyond belief. These plans were all about what Evan wanted, what he felt he needed, and for revenge for his own selfish reasons rather than anything positive for his son or his family. Evan’s plans INCLUDED ruining the very person he claimed “he was protecting”. You cannot be acting in that person’s benefit if what you are doing is going to destroy them and if the outcome will benefit YOU more than that person. The whole plan was about only what Evan wanted, which apparently mattered more than his “love” for anyone else. David was asking Evan if he cared about the consequences of the things Evan was planning on doing, and notice how Evan brushed it off and re-iterated the lie that he was “acting in Jordan’s best interests.” See what I analyzed before about that as it applies here too.
Evan said that Jordan was a “user”, so he would then entice Jordan with the huge payout later in order to manipulate him to do his bidding. “Jordan will thank him later” because in Evan’s mind, the money was worth it all. Evan thought that Jordan was motivated by money and material things because Evan was motivated by money and greed. Evan used EVERYTHING against everyone to accomplish his goals. Jordan being about 13-14 years old is dependent on his parents for survival, so until he could support himself, he was vulnerable and dependent on his family to take care of him. Evan thought that if Jordan got a huge settlement, that if HE had custody over Jordan then he could manipulate Jordan as to how money was spent. Evan did not anticipate the money would be placed in a trust fund and given when Jordan was of age. June stated in 1994 litigations that Evan was trying to control Jordan’s assets after they got the settlement. (refer to analysis of 1994 litigation, Analysis Part three- Part A) After Jordan received the settlement, and after a series of litigation between the Schwartz and Evan, Jordan filed for emancipation from his parents, which would indicate that his parents were still fighting over him and the money, or could reveal that Jordan wanted early access to his trust (course with the possible influence of Evan). Jordan’s behaviors after the settlement could indicate Evan’s control and advice over him and or his own desire for the settlement money. The series of litigation between the family members after the money settlement says more about this situation than what most realize.
Evan said: “If I go through with this, I will get everything I want”.
No part of that sentence Evan stated was about Jordan.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, the long run, is
18 that going to be healthy in the long run?
19 MR. CHANDLER: According to the
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Absolutely.
23 According to the experts, if it goes on
24 the way it is, he’s doomed. He has no chance of
25 ever being a happy, healthy, normal human being, no
1 [tape irregularity].
First off, see how Evan reverted the meaning of David’s question of whether it was going to be good for Jordan in the long run to ” according to the experts”? Evan said before that it was “the experts who convinced him to do something” when it was Evan who went shopping for those experts beforehand. One does not have to be “convinced” if they are shopping for the expert as it means one has a mindset/agenda already. Evan had to shop because he had to find the experts who agreed with him, ones who were going to help him do his bidding. He kept shopping until he found someone who was going to help him. Evan was reverting back to his planned lies as if to provide superficial and valid means of support to all Evan would claim. But lies are lies, no matter how many times repeated. Evan believed he could get away with the lies as he said “there is no way I lose. I have researched this inside and out. It’s all written on paper.” So again, Evan knew these lies were going to ruin people’s lives, but he didn’t care. He was going through with it because he was highly motivated by money, greed, jealousy and envy and he wanted what he did and no one was going to talk him or stop him if he could help it.
In Conversation One, Evan said he shopped and interviewed several “professionals” and said he had been coached on what to say and do. He said he had professionals advising him, which as we learned, were steps on how to accomplish his goals, not to “convince him” to act. Evan shopped for them, HE had the agenda, no one had to convince him of anything as he was well motivated on his own to accomplish his plans to the end. Evan had found a lawyer “who was the meanest SOB he could find”, he had paid a lot of money for psychiatrists and consults to practice/rehearse and to be coached and see if they could fool a professional. Again: “everything is going according to a certain plan which isn´t just mine. There are other people involved in this who are in certain positions. I paid them to do it.” So “according to expert advice”….that Evan received was not exactly in content to what he implied to David. He manipulated some professionals with proficiency and others not so successfully. (see Plan Detail section in Part A) This passage is simply projection: EVAN was not going to be “happy” unless HE got what HE wanted. Furthermore, if you are “shopping” for an expert, YOU are looking for someone who agrees with YOU, not the other way around. So anything Evan said about the experts “convincing HIM” are lies.
also see “According to the Expert” Analysis ****reference point
Referring to the “evidence” section titled above. Evan was talking about having “evidence” he claimed he had locked up, but it was all evidence that he could not have had as of July 8th, for certain events did not happen until after July 8th. The situations after July 8th were to what Evan planned and manipulated as according to plans. It was not until July 12th when Evan asked Rothman to talk to Dr. Abrams regarding a hypothetical scenario of molestation, Dr. Abrams made a preliminary assessment based on that hypothetical. The letter (based on fictitious scenario) that Abrams wrote on July 16th was based on the July 12th phone call to Dr. Abrams. Dr. Gardner was consulted in October, 1993. Dr, Katz was used and was manipulated after that because he was asked to review and asses only Jordan’s tape with Dr. Gardner. Considering Jordan did not have the “sodium amytal” incident until July 16th, where Evan drugged up his son saying it was for a baby tooth extraction, and then spent an hour or so programming Jordan regarding molestation and his relationship with MJ, there were no experts Evan consulted as of July 8th to advise Evan of any psychological effects.
Again: What “experts” did Evan SPEAK to as of July 8th who told him that Jordan was “greatly harmed”, that he had no chance of living a happy, normal life? NONE. All of the psych “experts” came into Evan’s game AFTER July 8th. If Evan did not plan to make false allegations against MJ, how would he know exactly what the “experts” would say and “advise” before they were even consulted as of July 8th unless it was his plans to do so, especially if “they had to convince him to do something”? Even the fictitious scenario was not consulted until July 12th, after these conversations and yet Evan claims he was “advised” to “act in Jordan’s best interests” as of July 8th.
Remember when David asked Evan if he suspected a sexual relationship between MJ and Jordan? Evan stated he had no idea and didn’t know, so he didn’t suspect any inappropriateness, but he was planning to accuse MJ anyway. Evan changed his story as to when he “found out” or “suspected” anything from saying it was at May at first, then changed it to June, then he changed to say it was not until July 16th during the dentist visit, and then August when he took Jordan to the psychiatrist who made the report of the allegations. The truth does not change, lies do. Here is another thing manipulators do: they constantly change the story to make things fit or appear to make sense in attempts for people to believe them, to confuse the issues and make people question what happened when in effort to get them to question what they know, remember or understand. If a manipulator can get you to believe in their words at any time or get you to be confused, then they look legitimate but when you really look at things and question/analyze their words and actions (again, accounting for traumas or inconsistencies that have a valid reason), the manipulator’s words are illusions. The fact that Evan had to fabricate “information”, practice, rehearse and have his son coached, as well as manipulate everyone to do his bidding let alone any drugging events, clearly demonstrates Evan’s adeptness at manipulation and show the allegations against MJ were lies – especially since he took such drastic measures to get what he wanted and refused to let the case get to court and be cross examined. The visit where Evan drugged Jordan and then planted suggestions for over an hour. Other times, Evan said he told Jordan he found out because he taped his room, which Evan admitted was a lie according to Ray Chandler’s book dated for July 12th. Evan drugged MJ in May and tried to take advantage of him, his income and livelihood. So when you analyze the “evidence” and all the changes to the molestation “discovery”, it all contradicts one another and cannot possibly be true in light of the other.
Let’s not forget the ONLY “great harm” Evan admitted that happened to Jordan was Evan’s own doing. The exact disconnect between the “great harm” and Evan’s plans and those he blamed when he explained his plans is a distinct indication and absolute behavioral proof that Evan was lying and making it all up in order to implement his plans. The fact that Evan referred to psychological “advice” on July 8th in these conversations was well before any psychological assessment was obtained as of July 8th is further support that analytical conclusion. The “advice” given was not regarding Jordan, but as to how to report abuse by third party and another based on a fictitious scenario. This information helped Evan assess HOW to get away with his plans, not advise him on Jordan and his well being.
So when David asked him questions about “the long run”, Evan quickly reverted, “according to the experts”…as he was trained and coached to say and do, but it also served as “support” that Evan was right to act on his plans. Evan was concerned about what HE wanted for HIS long run. Jordan’s benefit was “irrelevant to him”. When Evan used Dr. Katz, after Dr. Gardner that is a fine example of shopping until he got the answer he wanted. Why need Dr. Katz if Dr. Gardner’s conclusion was that Jordan was harmed sexually? Evan’s answers were seemingly based on practice and rehearsal. If he could sell his story to David, it was easier for Evan to complete his tasks against everyone else. If he could accomplish dividing David from the others and get him to his side, it would make it easier for Evan to win over Jordan and June and so on. Every action Evan took was to ensure his plans would not fail.
Additionally, in this passage of the transcript, Evan was trying to make “the experts” appear to be in support of Evan based on some “expert opinions” that he did not exactly have as of July 8th, and he implied they were the ones to convince him to act, but as you can see, some of those “meetings” did not happen BEFORE July 8th.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what happens if you
3 force him not to see him?
4 MR. CHANDLER: Not to see Michael?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s saying for sure
7 what will happen. Most people’s feeling is that
8 he’s gonna go on and hate me for a long time and
9 then some day when he gets older he’ll thank me.
Here is where Evan said “Jordan will thank me”.
But in this passage, Evan stated: “Nobody’s saying for sure what will happen”…course, because this was not about validity of molestation claims or about who had to “convince who”. See previous paragraph analysis above because all of that applies to this transcript part also. Evan again referred to psych “expert advice” before he had actually obtained it as of July 8th. Furthermore as I stated before, any person who was molested or coerced into a sexual relationship would not BE angry at a parent for stopping it, but a person who was forced to lose relationships based on lies and manipulation coming from one person who made them do it, WOULD probably be very upset. Evan stated this because he knew Jordan’s responses to Evan’s agenda would depend greatly on how well Evan brainwashed, threatened, and manipulated Jordan. Evan’s plans also depended greatly on how well he manipulated family, friends, and professionals. Evan had Jordan all to himself for the most vulnerable timing of his plans (which began on July 11/12th, after these conversations were recorded) AND for years to come, and Evan had successfully isolated Jordan from those who could tell him the difference and help him. Again, this is in support of planning and Evan’s entire agenda. Evan drugged up his own son to program him, who is to say he would not continue to drug up Jordan as needed after the 1993 lawsuit was over to keep appearances until Jordan was “done” with “therapy”? There is nothing to indicate that Evan would not drug Jordan again if he felt the need to do so. He drugged up MJ to try to manipulate him, his son, there was no end to evils that Evan could or would do.
Back to the passage….this was about Evan manipulating Jordan, June, MJ, David, and anyone else as he saw fit. This was about Evan breaking up relationships that Jordan held dear. Jordan would come to “hate” his father because what Evan was doing was separating him from his mother and friend without a valid reason, as the truth is MJ was innocent. Evan thought that HE could not be happy or have a happy life if HE didn’t have the money he wanted or the revenge he sought. So when Evan stated that “he will thank me in the long run” as a simple projection of how Evan felt. Evan felt that if HE had the money he requested of MJ that HE would be happy and could do what he aspired for his career. Remember, he said Jordan was a user, and therefore he believed that Jordan was friends with Michael because of money- again another projection because Evan sought to use MJ. Evan could have threatened Jordan that MJ could leave the relationship at any time, and so if he had money from him via Evan’s plans, then Jordan could use the money as he wanted. It would be a way that he could entice his son to lie and that it was ok to do so.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
11 think he hates you now?
12 MR. CHANDLER: I said I think
13 he’ll — I said he may or may not hate me now —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — but he’ll definitely
16 hate me tomorrow.
17 He’ll hate me, why? Because I’m taking
18 Michael away from him. That’s why.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s a —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: So you really think
22 Michael’s bad for him?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I know Michael’s bad for
Evan stated that Jordan “may hate him now but will definitely hate him tomorrow because Evan was taking MJ away from him”. Of course Jordan would hate his father because he took away a relationship without real or valid reason and because Evan was planning to make Jordan accuse MJ of inappropriateness. Evan was the one who was planning to making Jordan lie against someone he saw as a friend, not just white lies, serious lies. MJ simply got caught up in a bad situation, just as MJ said to the world. The problem for Evan was that Jordan looked up to MJ, admired him, began dressing like him and therefore adopting MJ as the role model father figure that was apparently lacking in his life. That was why Evan had seen MJ as “bad for MJ”- he viewed MJ as being in the way of the relationship with his son. Evan viewed June as preventing that from happening also and she supported her son’s relationship with MJ, that is until Evan manipulated her to support Evan and his plans.
However, Evan would not only come to take MJ away from him, Evan also tore him away from June, David and his half siblings. Evan intended to isolate Jordan from the entire family and MJ. It is interesting that Evan stated that Jordan would hate him only for taking him away from Michael, when his relationship with his mother and everyone one else was as integral in his life. This is evidence that Evan did not respect Jordan’s relationship with June as a meaningful and integral relationship for Jordan. Evan hated June, and so he did not care what this would do to her OR Jordan. Evan’s plans included destroying Jordan, the very one he claimed he was protecting. That is exactly what Evan said he would do. Evan hated June and wanted to hurt her the way he felt she hurt him. Evan wanted to destroy Jordan and still have him all to himself. If you need to, refer to the entire Conversation Three, Analysis Introduction, Paragraph Two section. All of that applies here too.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
1 MR. CHANDLER: You know how I know
3 Why would somebody, Dave — if you tell
4 me this, think of this logically. What reason
5 would he want us split up — [tape irregularity]
6 would he want me out of the way? What would be the
7 reason, unless he has something to hide?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But —
9 MR. CHANDLER: I know what he has to
10 hide. I happen to know what it is.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: But I can’t tell you.
Now here is where Evan accuses MJ of splitting [he and Jordan] up. Evan reverted to blaming solely MJ, “what reason would HE want us split up…” saying that he knew what MJ had to hide. MJ did not hide anything, but Evan made every effort to hide MJ’s innocence. The “I can’t tell you part” was a lie as Evan was saying plenty of other things. Evan knew MJ was innocent and had nothing to hide, but you see with divide and conquer, Evan was splitting any alliance David would have to MJ if he could get David to view MJ as someone evil and no good for the family. Evan had already told Schwartz that he felt MJ broke up the family, came between his relationship between Evan and Jordan and he also told Schwartz he blamed June and MJ for it, but see now he switched and solely blamed MJ. Divide an conquer.
When asked directly about molestation, Evan stated that MJ broke up with the family and other things in answer to that question. Evan bounced blame back and forth consistently throughout these conversations, but in the end, when Evan went public, he rested the blame solely on MJ. This is exactly what he said he would do in these conversations. Evan stated “MJ was the one he wanted” and that he was going to ruin everyone, and placed much blame on Jordan and June also. But in divide and conquer, Evan changed the perspective as he saw fit. In order to divide June and Jordan from MJ, he interchanged blame and as MJ was the one he wanted, once all that was in place, he would then turn ALL the blame on MJ. This is a typical tactic in dividing and conquering. Once he had everyone “where he wanted them”, he then turned it all on MJ, just as he has explained he would do in these conversations.
Evan drugged (overdosed) up MJ in May (refer to that reference point in Chandler-Schwartz Conversations- Part Three -An Integrated Analysis – Part A) and then took advantage of MJ by asking him questions, with Jordan present. EVAN was planning in the near future to drug up his own son to program him regarding molestation and Jordan’s relationship with MJ. Evan was planning to blame them all for his own mistakes and to justify reasons for his revenge. And Evan wanted Schwartz to believe MJ had something to hide…pffft. so WHO had something to hide? Evan had plenty to hide.
Now Evan wanted Schwartz to believe that whatever MJ “was hiding” was something he could not tell him, yet what had Evan already stated about MJ? He stated how he felt that MJ broke up the family, how MJ divided and conquered (splitting people) – these were the very actions Evan was doing himself. Evan said previously he did not think what “they were doing was wrong”, which means they (MJ, Jordan and June) were hiding nothing. When David asked Evan regarding molestation, Evan said he didn’t know, said he didn’t think they were doing anything wrong, and answered the question with other things, so Evan knew MJ didn’t do anything to Jordan. It is why Evan said MJ would be surprised and wouldn’t know what hit him. Evan was planning to set up MJ, as well as “evidence” (that Evan never had, didn’t exist or was fabricated and manipulated), and so he WANTED David to THINK that it was what MJ was hiding (as Evan claimed) that “made” Evan do what he did “in his son’s best interests” (that were all about Evan’s wants and ‘needs’). See how Evan was turning this around to suit his agenda? Evan WANTED Schwartz to begin to suspect MJ was inappropriate with Jordan because if David said it after Evan implied it, he was going to use that as “evidence” against MJ. Everything Evan did was to ensure his plans worked and was successful. However, David didn’t take the bait and each time David refused bait, Evan came back at it (often using other tactics and reasons) again and again to manipulate him. Evan did not have David on his side until after the end of July, early August so it took time for Evan to get to David beyond these taped conversations. Referring back to the lawsuit in 1994 that I analyzed in Part A, David said he did not believe MJ molested Jordan, but said he believed MJ broke up the family. Since Evan was so successful in suing MJ by making false accusations and saying that MJ broke up the family, David was also then inspired and sued MJ AND EVAN after the settlement for “breaking up the family”…thinking he’d be as successful also and trying to use the tactics Evan used against MJ,June and Jordan. But you see, Evan “could not tell David” anything and yet, the things Evan said was much more.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just asking you in
15 terms of logic. You know me. I’m not — I’m a
16 pretty liberal guy.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t get in anybody’s
19 way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want
20 me out of the way to such an extent that neither
21 one of them will take my phone calls, neither one
22 of them will talk to me?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think Jordy’s taken my
24 route of just withdrawing.
Evan stated he does not get in anybody’s way, but here Evan was interfering in everyone’s relationships and about to cause “great harm” to MJ, Jordan and June. Evan wanted everyone out of HIS way and certainly did not want anyone messing up his plans.
Here we go back to the complaint that MJ wanted him out of the way and that neither of them would talk to him or take his phone calls. BUT Evan knew very well why they would not talk to him. Evan drugged up MJ in May, hit him up for millions, asked him to buy or extend a home, all in his first and only one or two visits with MJ. Regarding phone calls, Evan had become belligerent, demanding, threatening and was irrational. Evan threatened to kill the family and MJ. Evan was creating the hostility amongst all of them and pitting everyone against one another. However, Evan was implying that the reason THEY (which he interchanges between HE/HIM to THEM/THEY) won’t talk to him was because of “something else”. “There was no reason he had to stop calling me”….”there was no reason for them to cut me out”…implying something more sinister and implying that someone in that group was controlling the others, though Evan never truly stated it. The truth is Evan was the only one trying to control everyone and everything to his desires and all the money he wanted to obtain. He wanted Schwartz “imagination” to run with it, but Schwartz didn’t take the bait. By switching from he/him to they/them, Evan is dividing, conquering, and setting it up to place sole blame on MJ, which is what he intended from the beginning.
Evan described himself as being a “liberal guy”, and says that he “does not get in anyone’s way”, however, the only one in anyone’s “way” is Evan. But for a “liberal guy”, his work on Men in Tights surely made fun of alternate lifestyles. Evan also could have meant that by being “liberal” that he was an “easy going guy”- it infers and implies it. There was nothing easy going about Evan as his manipulations of everyone and effort to control the situation and people was beyond the pale. Evan was planning to destroy everyone and ruin reputations and relationships -all for money. Evan was prolific in playing with words and meanings and was being non-specific under certain context- it was a tactic he used to his advantage that he took at every instance.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Well, one of the lessons
1 he’s gonna learn is that that route doesn’t work.
2 See, you just learned that lesson yourself. By you
3 withdrawing, as you said in your own words, you’re
4 the cause of this whole problem.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I think I am.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. So that’s what
7 withdrawal does for you.
8 My approach to the whole thing is that
9 the one person — the person who doesn’t talk is
10 the one who’s wrong, period –
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — no matter what the
13 action was, I believe everything is preventable,
14 every bad action that anybody takes is — unless
15 you’re truly pathologic –
Now here is one ploy Evan used against everyone: “the person who does not talk is wrong”. Evan used this mindset to justify his plans: Evan claimed that everyone was refusing to talk to him, was cutting him out, so in his mind “they were wrong”. Now Evan said David was wrong too and THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM (based on David’s own words). Evan then raises himself and his skills above David, again as if Evan is the only one with good senses and skills. Evan said David was pathological, so you see how Evan is once again playing with emotions and pushing buttons and dividing and conquering? “See you just learned yourself. By you withdrawing, as you said in your own words, you’re the cause of the whole problem.” So this part of the transcript of Evan’s words to David was simply more manipulation and dividing and conquering.
The truth is Evan did so much to create this situation. Evan would say anything and do anything to accomplish his goals. Evan thought this situation was only preventable if MJ had given the money requested of him at any point in time. (All That Glitters p.128) However, the truth is: This was only preventable if Evan was not so devious-no one did anything to deserve his wrath. Clearly, not everything was preventable as Evan “believed”. There was no one who was able to talk Evan out of furthering his plans.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — is probably
18 preventable if you just found somebody who would
19 sit [tape irregularity] you know what? They don’t
20 even have to talk back and give you [tape
21 irregularity] if you get it out, everything will be
22 okay, you know, but that’s my approach. My
23 approach is that the people who don’t talk are the
24 ones who are wrong.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I agree with that,
2 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you’re wrong.
Evan just went through many lines (not just a this point, but in other points of the conversation) regarding “the importance of talking” but as I have pointed out, Evan was being manipulative and was destroying or compromising any kind of chance for conversation. The only conversation Evan wanted was to get to the “negotiation” stage – the meeting. Now Schwartz told Evan he agrees with him about talking, and Evan’s response was “Well you’re wrong.” Behaviorally and cognitively speaking, this is an extreme contradiction and disconnect to all the things Evan said previously about the importance of “talking” and how THEY were wrong to not talk to him. Evan completely contradicted himself in a matter of seconds, which indicates his talk about communication is pure bs. Evan changes his “rules” as he sees fit because of his agenda. Communication to him is not important in the manner that he said it was. Evan stated in the first conversation that he had to create an “attention getting” events. So once again, the only person who was not taking and making communication difficult was Evan because of his agenda and how he wanted to accomplish it.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. I
4 MR. CHANDLER: You (inaudible) —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: I just said I am wrong,
6 but here is the other — I mean, the thing is
7 Jordy’s 13 years old. I’m talking about adults. I
8 mean, I don’t know if he — I mean, you’re his dad.
9 You’re his role model.
10 MR. CHANDLER: No, I’m not his role
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, you are,
13 definitely —
14 MR. CHANDLER: Not anymore.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: You are, positively, in
16 the long run, you’re his role model.
17 MR. CHANDLER: There is no — there
18 isn’t gonna be a long run if things went on like
20 Don’t you see? As long as I go along
21 with whatever they want to do —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — everything’s okay.
Here is proof that Evan felt he wasn’t Jordan’s role model, which fueled his anger and resentment. The thing is, this was Evan’s fault for not truly investing in the quality of his relationship with his son. These are deep feelings and a strong motive for Evan to seek revenge. Though Schwartz said that Evan was Jordan’s role model, Evan didn’t want to hear it at all because he felt MJ was Jordan’s role model. This is the real reason why Evan saw MJ as a threat to his relationship with Jordan. His words in that last passage indicate “the long run” of the relationship between Evan and Jordan was threatened as long as MJ was in their lives because Jordan was CHOOSING MJ over Evan.
Evan was just saying that “Jordan and MJ” were large and in charge, and that they were going to go with whichever parent was more permissive, and also claimed that they were going to “live with” Evan because he was more permissive, and now Evan was saying that as long as HE went along with THEM, that everything was ok and yet, Evan also said they were going to do whatever they wanted anyway-but you see, Evan wanted to be the “permissive parent” as if to “entice” Jordan and MJ to spend more time with Evan. Evan condemned June by saying she was “permissive”, but ok for himself because he saw that as long as MJ was in EVAN’s presence, then he always would have “opportunity”. All at the same time, Evan also complained that June was the one who was not allowing Jordan to visit Evan, and that SHE was the one alienating him from Jordan. David told Evan that Jordan was the one who didn’t want to spend time with Evan and June tried to get Jordan to call and spend time with him. So how “large and in charge” are MJ and Jordan? June? MJ? See how Evan changed the assignment of everything to suit his agenda? The only one “large and in charge” was Evan as he was the one manipulating the situation for his needs and desires.
Evan would change his story later once he got June, Jordan and David on his side as he would then place all the blame on MJ, saying that it was ONLY MJ controlling JORDAN. This is because Evan was planning to manipulate them to get her to cooperate with him. So to get to June, he was going to say that she was negligent in her care of Jordan because she allowed Jordan – gave him permission- to visit MJ on Evan’s visitation times as means to come between Evan and Jordan. To Jordan, Evan would convince him to say and or believe that MJ manipulated him and June and had “this power over him” due to his celebrity status, as one example. Evan could have had Jordan drugged for many different “sessions” to program him to say what he wanted, or Evan could have simply enticed Jordan with “all the money they could get from MJ”. So you see how Evan played them? Evan’s claims here are lies because he changed and flipped the approach depending on who he was manipulating. Again, can’t have it all these ways as Evan described it.
One claim cannot exist in light of the other because it is all contradictory. See how Evan was creating all the issues and then turning it all on MJ in the end? Evan said MJ was THE ONE he wanted, but he also had to have the support of June, Jordan and David in order to get to that point, and so this is the reason Evan kept switching blame on everyone.
24 As soon as I say you can’t [tape irregularity]
25 anybody —
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you go through that?
2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I went through
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: And how old were you?
5 MR. CHANDLER: Why do you — oh, with
6 my parents?
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: No, I didn’t go through
9 that with my parents. I never had any outside
10 influence on me –
I am not sure about his relationship with Evan’s parents when he was a child, so I cannot comment to say whether it is true or not. However, what is interesting is Evan’s words: “I never had any outside influence on me”….Either Evan was a child who did not have relationships with others or he views any “outside influence” as something negative such as a control aspect or he is saying that he was not susceptible to outside social “influence”. It could mean that he views outside influence as something that is not normal as he was saying he was not familiar with it because he claims he did not go through it, but yet “outside influence” was exactly part of his plans. Evan seems to be saying that he himself was above “outside influence”, but this is what he used against his own son, as well as everyone else. Evan cannot make up his mind as to whether or not that is good, but it was certainly ok for him to do it to other people. It is like saying everyone else is so weak that he is the only strong one to overcome it and because everyone was weak in his mind, he certainly was using it to his advantage. This behavior of using situations to control others is pathological and evil.
Behaviorally speaking, you cannot put people together in any environment and not have any influence transfer from one to another. It is a humanistic IMPOSSIBILITY and improbability. Evan was prolific at manipulation, and so it is possible he is lying about his past in order to validate his present actions as to how he became so prolific at manipulating people and situations. Throughout these conversations, Evan has placed himself higher than all consistently. In his own mind, no one was better than he was and everyone else owed HIM. He simply chose not to make an honest living or an honest life.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — was more powerful
13 than my parents were.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, Michael is
15 very seductive, without even trying.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, he’s trying, believe
17 me. He just looks like he’s not trying because
18 he’s so damn good at it.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, it’s —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, he fooled me —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — I’ll tell you that.
23 He fooled me, for a while.
Now Evan turns it up on MJ and declared that MJ was being “so damn good at seduction”, because he wanted to say that MJ used his power and money intently. Again this is in part how Evan manipulated everyone as he was so good at manipulation and Evan used the very tactics he claimed others did. Jordan used these very words of power, and position, and celebrity status as being MJ’s mode to have his way with them to Dr. Gardner, and it shows he was coached by Evan.
Evan stated that MJ divided and conquered, which requires a lot of thought and planning, just as seduction with money, sexuality and power require it. Evan claimed that MJ “seduced” people with his money and power, but as you can see, Evan twisted this around. Evan’s reason for targeting MJ was because of jealousy: of his money, power and ability to relate to people. Evan had stated many times that he felt “MJ broke up the family”. And so course, Evan had to build that up more by now including “seduction”, and so he alludes more to sexuality later. This is how Evan was going to tie in the allegations to MJ. In Ray Chandler’s book, Ray Chandler included psychological definitions, behaviors of “pedophiles”, so surely, he had done his homework as to how to frame MJ. If they could make him “look” like one behaviorally, then they felt people would agree with it. Everything Evan did was to ensure his plans did not fail and that he succeeded in ruining MJ’s reputation. Evan shopped for professionals, “researched it inside and out”, no way he could lose…you see how well Evan planned and executed his agenda?
Previously, Evan said he though he said he did not think MJ was intentionally doing anything wrong before, then later, Evan said it became as such, and now he was saying that MJ was intentionally seducing people with his money, power and position and then claim later, sexually with evidence that never existed and the Evan had to fabricate by drugging Jordan. Saying MJ didn’t intentionally do anything, but then say he did so with intention is a direct contradiction, as one cannot exist in light of the other, especially considering the seriousness of all Evan’s allegations. So these are more of Evan’s lies against MJ. In order for MJ to utilize his power and position as Evan stated, requires lots of planning, and thus intention. With all the changing blame, dividing and conquering Evan did, Evan was setting them all up and in between contradicting himself to each of his claims against everyone. Evan had many contradictions in his claims and “accounts” of who did what to whom. Evan was the real perpetrator and culprit of crime against others as you can see the extent he manipulated everything and everyone to ensure success of his plans.
The mind naturally disconnects when lying and associates more naturally when recalling the truth, aside from times of honest and genuine forgetting. But I guarantee you that if someone believes another hurt someone, has proof, knows it, lived it is NOT going to forget the main stuff. And here you see Evan changing his claims, re-routing blame as he saw fit, dividing and conquering…..so it was difficult for him to have his own story straight. Evan made more effort to recall his accusations than when talking about his plans, and who did what, then contradicts when he changes focus and these are clear indications of deception and lies. Evan was consistent in describing his plans but contradicted himself in blame and who did what. Evan was manipulating everyone, and so that is why the story changes with his own words and why he needed coaching and rehearsal and ensured Jordan had rehearsal and coaching as well. So in other words, the more someone lies, the easier it is for their stories to unravel because it takes effort in cognition to make the associations and recall lies told than the effort the minds takes to make associations when recalling the truth. The truth does not change no matter how many times recalled and regardless of the wording of questions asked, lies do change each time an event is recalled. That is why investigators (as one example) look for consistencies and inconsistencies in the interrogation/investigation process, and it is why questions are asked repeatedly during an interrogation using different phrasing.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
25 this is —
1 MR. CHANDLER: There’s no reason why
2 they would have to cut me out unless they — unless
3 they need me to be away so they can do certain
4 things which I don’t think are good to be doing.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: And I — and not only
7 that, but I don’t even have anything to say about
8 it, okay? [tape irregularity] I think what they’re
9 doing and it isn’t bad, and so maybe I’m wrong –
Here is where we catch Evan again. Evan stated that he did not think what they (MJ, June ad Jordan) were doing was wrong. It is a clear statement that Evan was making this whole thing up, turning a mountain into a volcano. It means that he knew that June was not entirely wrong for allowing her son the freedom to choose. It means that he knew MJ’s relationship with Jordan was innocent. “I think what they’re doing and it isn’t bad so maybe I am wrong ” is directly opposite to declarations like: “MJ broke up the family. MJ divided and conquered. MJ and Jordan divided and conquered” and opposite to the worst of the claims of all, the sexual allegations against MJ. Now Evan put in there “unless they need me away so they can do certain things.” Evan stated before that MJ and Jordan were doing what they wanted to do anyway, regardless, and now he said they wanted him away so they could do certain things, and remember Evan wanted to be the “permissive” parent, so now he implied that MJ was doing something sinister. Evan twisted it once more. Can’t have it all these ways: to imply that MJ was sinister, and say he divided and conquered, and yet say what “they were doing isn’t bad” regarding the same subjects. Evan now was manipulating again saying “unless they need me to be away so they can do certain things which I don’t think they should be doing.” See the disconnect in cognition? It is because the truth is that June, MJ ad Jordan were not doing anything wrong, and Evan knew it, but see he had to throw in the “unless” statement to cause doubt. Evan spent all this time adamantly claiming certain things that he felt was WRONG, and now he states, he did not think what “they” were doing was wrong. Again, Evan could not make up his mind on what applied where, which is demonstration of lies being told.
Evan said he didn’t have anything to say about it is different from saying that he had no say IN it. One of Evan’s complaints was that June had custody over Jordan, and in his mind, SHE allowed Jordan to visit MJ during time Jordan was supposed to spend with Evan. Now if Evan had custody, wouldn’t that take care of that problem? JUNE was “the permissive” parent that Evan coveted in position. EVAN wanted to be “in charge” of Jordan, and so when M came to visit Jordan, then MJ would be at Evan’s house. Evan wanted MJ around for opportunity, if you catch my drift. EVAN wanted access to MJ’s money and opportunities so much that Evan overdosed MJ in May to manipulate MJ to agreeing to whatever Evan wanted of him.
Evan stated they were not doing anything wrong, and so the real issue is that they were NOT interacting with HIM. THEY were not calling or including HIM. THEY were not there at Evan’s house. The last time MJ was at Evan’s he drugged him up and took advantage of him…..asked MJ for money and Jordan was witness to it. The things Evan thought they should not be doing was “cutting him out” and “not calling him”. And course he would truly have nothing to say about that because they had every right to choose whether to include him or not as Evan knew that he [Evan] was the only one doing wrong. Evan knew why they were distancing themselves but that is not the story that he was telling David, nor the story he would tell the world.
Here is a grand contradiction in Evan’s behaviors. He “does not have anything to say about ‘it'” but he was DOING something SINISTER by setting everyone up, manipulating them just so HE could have ALL HE WANTED and he said plenty of lies. Evan KNEW what HE was doing was wrong and that is the real cognitive reason why he said “maybe I am wrong”.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not even
12 getting a chance to express that.
Another lie. Evan stated here he was not getting a chance to express that BUT Evan was the one who refused opportunities to talk and was making communication difficult- all because he wanted to manipulate to get them all together for “the meeting” where he could hand them “the paper”- and that was to set up for negotiations. He said he only wanted a meeting IF MJ was going to be there, and he insisted Jordan and June had to be there because Jordan had to be witness to his father’s actions. If you remember “the paper” was the fictitious molestation situation he inquired to a psych professional, of course, and all that was with his lawyer’s help, THAT paper was THE one he was handing to June and MJ. MJ’s letter would say something to the effect of making the accusations if MJ didn’t give Evan the money he wanted. In that meeting, Evan was going to do nothing but give them “the paper” and wait for a reaction. Based on that reaction, he would make a phone call to say go or not. When Evan explained how he was going to behave during that meeting in any other section, the words are consistent and no part of ANY of those times did Evan say he was going to talk about “concerns” or things that were bothering him in attempt to solve any problems. So the meeting showed Evan was going to control the way it went AND the content/quality of “conversation”, since all he was going to do was hand a paper and wait for reaction, then make a phone call, then based on reaction, he’d make a phone call. None of that involved any kind of “conversation” that in content would be of importance he had stressed about “talking/conversation”- for what it DID demonstrate behaviorally was: 1. Evan was not interested in conversation to have quality conversation and was making talking difficult even at that level. 2. It demonstrated that Evan’s interests were to control others/conversations to get to the NEGOTIATION stage where he would make his demands on MJ regarding money. He claims he was not given a chance to explain “that” but was SAYING he had no intentions of TALKING ANYWAY and by what Evan told David of what he was going to say and do, is all very telling of exactly that, regardless of anything else he said about conversing. Evan knew he was creating the entire situation AND saying what he was PLANNING, but when he acts /talks about being the concerned parent, the only one who is trying to communicate the best of all of them, he was lying. MONEY is ALL HE WAS INTERESTED IN and he cared nothing for anybody involved. Every step of Evan’s plans had situations to be controlled and all steps were interdependent on one another. If he couldn’t get everyone on his side, he couldn’t have power against MJ. If he didn’t have custody over Jordan, he then couldn’t control Jordan to make the accusations (even had to drug his son to implant false accusations) OR to have access to the money after the settlement. Evan had to have Jordan in his custody to manipulate him, and everyone else out who could help Jordan. And so, if Evan hindered and made communication difficult if not impossible (as he made threats against everyone and purposefully did not call people back when they DID call), then there was no chance of having a grievance as that lack of communication was done in order to manipulate the meeting with MJ, June and Jordan…so you see how that is all interdependent? The only meeting Evan was going to do ANY talking was the negotiation meeting where he would DEMAND 20M from MJ and if MJ didn’t agree, he would go public with the allegations.
Evan flat out refused any chance to talk to June and or Jordan. So Evan knew he created the situation; when he had a chance to do so, he refused to talk because it was part of the plan to not talk about it. He was only going to hand “them a paper” and “say nothing”. He created a hostile environment by leaving threatening messages. He had NO intention of talking at mostly any point in time. Furthermore, Evan had no intentions of talking to them at the FIVE MINUTE meeting he was manipulating to have (five minutes is no time to talk about anything). All Evan was going to do was to hand June and MJ a piece of paper, say nothing and wait for a reaction. Depending on that reaction, he was going to leave and then make a phone call to “go” or “not go yet”. Evan was NOT going to express anything but let them know that he was going to make false accusations against MJ (if MJ did not pay him money) and Evan as going to threaten June with placing blame and continued to threaten her if she did not cooperate she would lose her son. Evan was not having the meeting to actually “discuss” anything. The ONLY thing Evan wanted to express was his demands at “the meeting” that Evan would have ONLY if MJ was present and with the help of “the letter, then he’d be ready to “negotiate”.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think that’s all — I
14 think it’s all fair because —
15 MR. CHANDLER: I had a good
16 communication with Michael.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: We were friends, you
19 know. I liked him.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: I respected him and
22 everything else for what he is, you know. There
23 was no reason why he had to stop calling me. He
24 could have called me.
Yes, Michael DID spend time with Evan, and it is possible that at first, MJ accepted him and was willing initially to have a friendship with him. That is until the drugging incident in May; and since then, MJ surely would have a reason to stay away from Evan. While MJ was a very generous person, he was not stupid. It is possible that MJ could tell that Evan was not sincere in the relationship and or remembered the drugging incidents, and maybe also later, knew of the threats to kill everyone. MJ was aware of the custody battle between Jordan’s parents. It is possible MJ saw red flags and felt it was better to distance himself from someone who could potentially harm him aside from the drugging incident alone. MJ surely knew to stay away from them all the day this tape was played for him. It was the last time Jordan spent time with MJ.
In Evan’s mind, he was not doing anything wrong to MJ to cause him to “not call” him, however, Evan knew why MJ was staying away from him. But of course, Evan omitted that to David.
Evan said he respected MJ “for what he is”,” – exactly who did he think MJ was as a man, a human, individual, aside from the “public eye” or stories in the media? He surely did not truly know MJ that well personally over a long period of time. The only thing Evan “knew” about MJ was from outside sources and or the media, as Evan made references to some negativity expressed in the media at that time. The point is, Evan did not know MJ because he had only met him twice and it takes time to get to know someone personally. However, anyone who met MJ at least once knew the kindness and good in his heart. The media was not always kind to MJ, and especially was not kind to him after the allegations of 1993. However, MJ was and is loved by millions. Many who KNEW MJ or met him, liked him GENUINELY, colleagues and good friends alike- they all had nothing but good to say about him. The ones who were false friends, backstabbers, and former disgruntled employees were the ones who trashed him for revenge and money. People like DD and her ilk made their careers out of trashing MJ – and worse since 1993, thanks to Evan and his plans. But most importantly….Evan was saying he considered him a FRIEND and someone he had “good communication”.
So this is what Evan did to his “friend” MJ: Drugged him up, trashed him to family and friends, asked him to buy bigger home or extension, asked him to fund his career, later made his son make false allegations against him, and overall, use MJ as an excuse to “get all he wanted”. If this was how Evan treated “friends” (and Evan manipulated his own family too), how did he treat people he hated? Evan had NO reservations in harming MJ, Jordan and June – as he expected a big payout- “If I go through with this, I win big time….. I will get everything I want”.
Consider this: MJ told June and her family to just treat him normally, like everyone else. Who is to say MJ did not say that to Evan? Then what did Evan do? Evan abused MJ’s trust, time, and “friendship”. The truth is Evan did not respect MJ at any time.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
1 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, Dave, I — you
2 ask Jordy. I sat in the room one day, and I talked
3 to Michael and told him exactly what I want out of
4 this whole relationship, what I want [tape
5 irregularity], okay, so he wouldn’t have to figure
6 me out.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: And one of things I said
9 is we always have to be able to talk to each other.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the rule, okay,
12 because I know that as soon as you stop talking
13 weird things start going on and people [tape
14 irregularity] —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Imaginations take over.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Imagination will just
17 kill you.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
19 MR. CHANDLER: It causes all kinds of
20 problems, and so, I mean —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, can you do
22 this –
Here Evan reverted back to the notion that “the one who does not talk is wrong” part of his manipulations. Again, it was Evan who was ruining the quality and frequency of communication. The only times Evan met MJ was in supposedly in May (Again June Chandler testimony, 2005) and clearly, Evan was referring to this timing of events for it was the only time he met MJ to sit him down and talk with him- one sided- all about what “Evan wanted”, so MJ would not have to “figure him out”. But what did Evan do to MJ in MAY? Drugged him up, and tried to take advantage of his mind, and asked him inappropriate questions. This was Evan’s way of “talking” to MJ about “what he wanted, so he would not have to figure him out”???? Is this how a FRIEND supposed to treat someone? So now here, because MJ distanced himself since May, with good reason, he was turning it against MJ and imply that it was MJ who was wrong for staying away since. SO here , he goes back to setting up MJ as the one in the wrong.
Did Evan have fear that MJ would press charges against him? It could very well be where Evan’s “imagination took over”.
There are so many people in this world who do things to get something back without intending to give back more to that person, Evan was one of them. Evan called MJ and Jordan “users” and yet, Evan’s actions proved that he himself was a user and only interested of what he could get out of someone. Notice how Evan does not state ALL of what he asked of the relationship, ONLY specifying that they have to be able to talk to each other. So who is it that has something to hide? Evan had plenty to hide.
Here is the thing about May drugging incident.
MJ visited Evan May 22nd and the Memorial Day weekend (sometime around May 27th). During this time, Evan asked MJ for millions to help him with his career in screenplays, asked him to be partners in MJ’s production company and with Sony, asked MJ to build an extension to Evan’s existing home and if he couldn’t then to buy a new, bigger house…apparently, MJ said no kindly. Since Evan felt that MJ should help his career, Evan didn’t take no for an answer.
At some point during the weekend, Evan said that MJ had headaches and asked him for medication. Course, Ray said that Evan claimed he offered OTC meds like Tylenol, or aspirin, but also said MJ recognized the name “Demerol” and asked for it. It was written that Evan suggested Toradol, which MJ did not recognize as having before, and Toradol was what Evan “happened to have” (how convenient for a dentist to have Toradol). Evan then gave him two Toradol injections one hour apart. Evan drugged MJ with 60 mg (two 30mg doses one hour apart IM) of Toradol and within ten minutes of that second injection, MJ began to have slurred speech, a side moderately serious side effect of Toradol according to protocol. Ray Chandler wrote how “carefully Evan monitored MJ” and supposedly “after four hours”, Evan decided to then “take advantage of MJ’s mental state and proceeded to ask him questions”.
Before I evaluate the dose Evan administered, let me tell you something about Toradol. Toradol in 1993 was not like the formula made since 1998 (which is the composition used today). Toradol was taken off the market in June/July of 1993 due to studies between 1990-1993 reporting an increase of fatalities with side effects, and increased reports of the lesser side effects. Toradol made into a new formula from 1993-1998 and was not released under the new formula until 1998. Most importantly, the dosing in 1993 according to protocol was significantly different than protocol written for the 1998 formula. The maximum dose was significantly LOWER in 1993 than in 1998, especially for IM or IV administration.
See excerpt from report regarding the 1993 formulation: “Concerns over a high incidence of reported side effects led to ketorolac trometamol withdrawal in several countries, while in others its permitted dosage and maximum duration of treatment were reduced. From 1990 to 1993, at least 97 fatal outcomes were reported worldwide from ketorolac due to allergic reactions, acute renal failure, gastrointestinal bleeds, and other side effects.55 Despite its availability in 30mg and 60mg vials, the maximum pain relief seems to be reached with a parenteral dose (IV/IM) of 10mg.” via http://www.mdacep.org/conference/2011/lex2.pdf (pg 15) *** side note: Spirix is another brand name for Toradol. Parenteral dose is IV (intravenous) or IM (intramuscular). is indicated here: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parenteral)
The MAXIMUM dose of Toradol IM/IV in 1993 was only 10mg (per DAY) and available in 30mg bottles. Doctors were supposed to give the least amount of medicine that was most effective for a person’s weight. So this means, while someone may get 10mg, another, would get 5mg, or 3mg or 2mg, depending on weight, but no one was to get more than 10mg in a day. Go back a couple paragraphs above and see that Ray Chandler gave MJ TWO 30mg doses one hour apart….so Evan had overdosed MJ by 20mg the first dose and by 30mg the second for a total overdose of 50mg in ONE HOUR. Again, the maximum dose PER DAY was 10mg in 1993’s formulation of Toradol.
Now according to today’s dosing of Toradol (from 1998 on), (which is probably where Ray Chandler got his reference from when he went to publish in 2004 because the protocol he describes in his book, All That Glitters, is what was written for the Toradol formulation released in 1998 not 1993). sources state that :If in SINGLE dose IM/IV, you can give 60mg (depending on weight and amount of effectiveness), but in MULTIPLE dose, the maximum is 30mg every 6 hours not to exceed 120mg in a day. PO dose (by mouth) is 20mg not to exceed 40mg. (http://reference.medscape.com/drug/ketorolac-343292 http://www.rxlist.com/toradol-drug/indications-dosage.htm) Also this site listed side effects, one of which included SLURRED speech and the site advised that if that happened to go for immediate medical attention: http://www.drugs.com/toradol.html This site other site has information on Toradol and reports of it causing sedation in people as side effect, although not common, it’s happened in the past: http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/toradol/sedation So in other words, in some people, a side effect of Toradol IS sedation and slurred speech etc, which is supposed to be treated IMMEDIATELY in the hospital. Furthermore, Toradol is NOT (and was not) indicated for use in minor or chronic conditions, only severe acute pain and conditions
Ray Chandler explained in his book that Evan had given MJ Toradol, for pain. However, MJ had a chronic condition, so administering Toradol for a chronic condition was against protocol in 1993 (also since 1998 too), which could be why MJ was not familiar with Toradol. R. Chandler also wrote that Evan had given MJ “half the maximum dose 30mg IM” and then the “second half of 30mg an hour later” claiming MJ complained he was still in pain. R. Chandler was writing that in effort to advocate that Evan was “following medicinal guidelines.” But alas, everything Evan did was against protocol written in 1993. But if you look at R.Chandler’s pages where he describes how Evan administered the medication and why, and then compare the description to the protocol for Toradol made in 1998, you see it is the same. The new formula was not even released until 1998 and clearly, the dosing in 1993 was for a different formula of Toradol and with different protocols than 1998.
The protocol for Toradol in 1993 is a ONE time dose of the max 10mg, if that is the LEAST amount of medication that would be effective for a person based on their weight. (So that means one person may get anywhere from 2mg to 10mg and the max per day was not to exceed 10mg but whatever dose is the LEAST amount needed for relief.) R.Chander said the first dose was 30mg and a second dose of 30mg was given an hour later. Clearly this was an overdose TWICE. Secondly, since it was written that MJ was not familiar with the medication, it may be safe to assume the least dose effective was not known.
So why would Evan administer “half of the maximum dose” when it is not half the dose or known what least dose is effective for MJ’s body weight let alone use it for a chronic condition? The max dose per day in 1993 was 10mg, and 30 mg is not one half of ten. Sixty milligrams was the max dose per day after 1998. So where did Ray Chandler get his information? Backtracking??? Hmmm?? This is a perfect example of how liars change the story and backtrack to confuse the issues and manipulate others as if to appear valid and true- and what I said in previous paragraphs regarding that. Protocols for Toradol are specific and Evan ignored all that regardless if he even bothered to look the drug up before he administered it to MJ. Furthermore, half the maximum dose per day would have been at maximum 5MG, not 30mg as written by R. Chandler.
SO: Not only did Evan administer an overdose of a drug, but he also used it against the approved use for the drug, specifically, for a chronic condition MJ endured (a condition for which MJ received treatment regularly), and he ignored a vital side effect for which should have required additional treatment. The protocol stated that if one exhibited certain side effects, that medical attention was needed as immediate as possible. Slurred speech was one of those side effects that required medical attention if more than 10mg was given (as in overdose) and if the person’s speech became slurred. R. Chandler wrote that “within ten minutes of the second 30mg dose, MJ began to have slurred speech”. In the first hour, MJ was overdosed by 20mg considering the maximum per day at that time was 10mg, and MJ was given 30 more within thirty minutes later, thus again, an overdose of 50mg for 1993 dosing protocol, which brings me to my next point in analysis.
For the next four hours, R. Chandler wrote that Evan merely “watched over MJ, took his vitals and respirations” as opposed to taking MJ to the hospital. Instead, Evan then took advantage of MJ and asked questions. (such as regarding sexual orientation). Evan decided to only “monitor” MJ once MJ had exhibited side effects: Evan took MJ’s pulses, respirations, and kept him awake because Evan knew he overdosed MJ and was in danger. The possible reason Evan did not take MJ to the hospital for treatment of the side effects MJ had was due to the a possible fact, that MJ did NOT ask for medications, and definitely that Evan knew he administered medication outside of his expertise AND not in dose according to protocol. He knew he could get in trouble for overdosing MJ for the infraction to the protocols alone. He would have gotten in WORSE trouble if the medication WAS NOT given WITH MJ’s PERMISSION.
You know, Evan was a DENTIST. He was Not a MEDICAL PRACTITIONER, so therefore, did he have a license to administer medication while at home and to administer not for dentistry purposes? Did Evan just practice medicine outside his specialty and competence since he gave MJ Toradol for his headache, a chronic condition? I’d say he violated his oath to cause no harm based on the evidence uncovered. Surely Evan being a doctor of dentistry still should know enough to look up side effects of drugs, appropriate dosage and approved conditions to use it, and yet, he chose this drug to administer to MJ outside of his expertise, gave too much, and still seemed “surprised” of MJ’s slurred speech afterwards. Evan surely was aware that he endangered MJ.
SO you see, Evan was hiding a lot, especially the fact that he overdosed MJ in May which MJ could have remembered or have been told by Jordan. Did Evan think that the reason MJ was not talking to him was because he was planning to pursue that event legally? Evan said incessantly to Schwartz that “they would not talk to him, return calls, and there was no reason for it”. Evan knew he did MJ wrong, in fact a crime to overdose someone on purpose, and so “his imagination was running wild.” in fear of getting in trouble. These fears were heightened the longer “they” (possibly BOTH MJ and Jordan) were not talking to him or returning his calls. Evan said MJ STOPPED CALLING EVAN. We know MJ distanced himself from Evan since May. It is VERY possible that Evan feared retribution or litigation from MJ and that it was the real reason Evan’s imagination took over (“Imagination will kill you”).
Ray wrote that Evan decided after MJ was under the drug’s influence for 4 hours to “take advantage of MJ’s state” and proceeded to interrogate MJ regarding sexual orientation and “other questions”. As Ray wanted the word to believe: MJ just so happened to have asked for medication, that Evan just so happened to have Toradol and “appropriately dosed him”- and then Evan just so happened to take advantage of him and interrogated him FOUR HOURS AFTER the injection, and only asked MJ questions regarding sexuality? It is possible that Evan purposefully overdosed him to be able to question MJ FOR the DURATION of FOUR hours and I believe he did so to make MJ agree to money, or whatever he wanted, as well as try to find out other personal information. I believe Evan questioned and tried to manipulate MJ for whatever Evan wanted: a multimillion dollar movie deal and make him partner in MJ’s dealings with his production company and Sony….or to ask whatever else. Evan knew that he was violating MJ in many ways …and that is what he was hiding. (This is repetitive so you see where the bs and truths are and how they support the findings I have indicated.)
Furthermore, Evan said that MJ denied being gay as well as no to other questions, just as when Murray drugged him up and tape recorded him, where MJ was still worried about taking care of the sick children, wanting to create a children’s hospital…really think about MJ’s responses for a moment. When Evan overdosed MJ, it was to get something out of him- work promises, money, information to use against MJ. Most importantly, MJ was always genuinely concerned for the well-being of children and the importance of solid families, and in fact donated hundreds of millions towards their care. A pedophile does not care about the health and well-being of a child to hurt them sexually, let alone care enough to donate one cent towards their health, vitality and advocating for building stronger families. It is safe to say that MJ might have said no to Evan’s demands, suggestions or persuasions. And that would have upset Evan to no end. He learned he could not manipulate MJ not even under drug influence, which probably infuriated him more and added to motivation, especially since it was May that MJ distanced himself. Additional facts and outcomes where MJ wouldn’t give or say what Evan wanted when he drugged him up, fueled Evan’s motivations and imagination.
Weeks later, Evan gave his own son sodium amytal for a mere baby tooth extraction (again, not a drug that was typically used for extractions) several weeks after this incident (July 16th) and then asked his son if MJ molested him and attempted plant to false memories. (see point I made before regarding the dentist visit) Do you see a pattern here? Evan also drugged Jordan up and made suggestions as well, under the guise of pulling a tooth, which is my next point. Ah yes, the dentist visit where Evan was the dentist, his friend was the anesthesiologist, and they gave Jordan sodium amytal to extract a tooth. Afterwards, Evan led the whole conversation, telling Jordan suggestions of what he wanted to hear Jordan say, and continued to do so for over an hour until Jordan then said what Evan wanted him to say. Do you see a pattern in Evan’s behavior regarding drugging people and planting ideas?
The fact that Evan overdosed MJ in May is exceptionally and exponentially high motivation for Evan to target MJ, June and Jordan as he feared consequences. Jordan was witness to that event and it was possible that he told June. (Evan’s imagination was running wild, so he did not know if June knew the drugging incident at all). It could explain June’s distance from Evan since the month of June. It is HIGHLY likely that Evan thought they were going to gang up on HIM and do something about it. In fear as response, Evan tried to turn the tables and make it so that MJ would forget about going after him, and so it is likely that Evan devised his plans since the end of May.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Do you think
24 you — look. Do you know what it’s like? You go
25 out with — listen. I — just that old expression,
1 you know. It came from some movie. How does it
2 go? “Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean
3 somebody isn’t [tape irregularity].”
4 You know that expression?
OK, so now Evan’s imagination was running wild. And now, an interesting comment Evan made was in reference to “It came from a movie” and imagination running wild. Remember that Evan written with Jordan, “Robin Hood: Men In Tights”- a comedy with sexual jokes, homophobic undertones and it was premiering at the end of July 1993. Psychologically speaking, this may have had some influence with the timing and events that predicated the base plan Evan created. It is obvious that many aspects influenced Evan to do what he did to MJ, June and Jordan.
Evan was acting paranoid…sure some could say that every parent may worry about the care of their child in another person’s hands. However, the paranoia was not about molestation. It was about whether MJ was going to charge him with negligence for overdosing him in May. After all, MJ distanced himself from Evan since the end of May. Evan’s mind went nuts and boom.
When June stated in the 1994 lawsuit that the “said action” was Evan’s doing, from his negligence, WITHOUT CAUSE, and or other legal fault, she could have meant including this event. May events surely fits into Evans negligence, and dysfunctional thinking. Evan referring to being paranoid state and applying it to himself confirms that he was indeed paranoid and he was paranoid because he knew HE did something wrong to MJ, not the other way around.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What it really
7 means is that you may think I’m crazy —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
10 inaudible) I’m thinking is actually right, but what
11 I’m saying to you is that I’ve had every single
12 girl — and I am not kidding you — every [tape
13 irregularity] ever gone out with, from the very
14 first girl to the very last, has cheated on me, and
15 I have never cheated on anybody.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: I would never.
18 Now, if I wanted to, based on that
19 history, I could be so fucking paranoid about
20 girls, I would never —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — be able to [tape
23 irregularity] relationship. I wouldn’t be able to
24 [tape irregularity] was like, I couldn’t have a
25 family. I’d be a fucking raving lunatic. Okay?
The “paranoia” imagination run wild thing is pretty embedded with Evan. The fact Evan continued to talk about it for several lines in the transcript is significant because it does mean something. Evan gave several other examples of what would cause his paranoia to kick in, surely avoiding accountability for overdosing MJ was high motivation for Evan. Evan knew he did something wrong to MJ and therefore apparently, plausibly, feared repercussion.
Evan now implied that June cheated on him too, since he said EVERY woman he had been with, and it therefore provides a motive for revenge against June- and he was also putting a bug in David’s ear about June’s fidelity to him to make him question it (divide and conquer, manipulation). The truth: He WAS bitter towards June, and perhaps all the women who treated him badly and he certainly was acting like a lunatic to devise the plans against his family and MJ. When you combine this with the motivations I have outlined in this analysis, you can see Evan had strong motives, high emotions, certain situations fueling the emotions and motives within him, and so now you are beginning to see how volatile Evan truly was. He was threatening to kill everyone. He said he wanted to see June either on the stand or at the end of a shot gun. He said that he would probably shoot his wife at the time too if she betrayed him. Obviously, Evan was capable of physical harm- he assaulted David twice between 1993 and 1994 and assaulted Jordan in 2006. Evan was surely capable of killing someone if he was angry enough.
The issues Evan outlined in that section are solely his problem. He says what makes him not a lunatic is the aspect of talking, communication. However, as stated before, communication with Evan is selective and elective, usually one sided, and is highly conditional, and it only means something when Evan intends for it to mean something. Communication in this case, Evan was manipulating in every way: from threatening messages to refusing to talk it out to manipulating David. Evan was creating a situation with June, MJ and Jordan to where they would not want to talk to him. He was threatening them, physically, verbally, was abusive and belligerent. When David asked Evan to go and talk with them, Evan refused. Evan clearly was not one who wanted to talk unless it was for his purpose of negotiation and under his conditions. Whatever kind of communication Evan had was not the same communication Evan said he valued and his behavior in the two different scenarios are completely independent of one another. Evan was not after his wife, he was after MJ. Clearly, communication meant something different to Evan, depending on the situation. His imagination took over because he was guilty of harming MJ back in May, and Jordan was witness to it, and Jordan could have told June and MJ; Evan’s imagination did not take over because of “suspected molestation.” Evan knew what he did to MJ.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: But what’s my point? My
3 point is that the only thing that keeps me from
4 getting that way is that I can talk about it and be
5 reassured [tape irregularity] on it in my
6 imagination — I mean, my wife’s not home tonight.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: She’s gonna be at a
9 meeting until 2:00 o’clock in the morning.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Right? This has
12 happened many times.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: She’s going to go away
15 to Cannes Film Festival next year —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — right? Do you know
18 what that’s like?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: That Film Festival’s a
21 fucking sex party.
Evan said he can talk about it, but being able to talk about it and actually talking about it are different things. In this case regarding MJ, Jordan and June, Evan sabotaged much of the talking aspect. Evan left threatening and belligerent messages “because it was easier than talking” (Ray Chandler, ATG, p. 62). Evan said he can talk about it, but he was choosing to not talk and manipulating everything about the situation otherwise. He was talking to Schwartz about it (course pretty late in the game, and mostly, Evan was using this conversation to manipulate David) and repeatedly refused to talk to June. He then compared the fact that his wife is out somewhere and he trusted her completely as in comparison to June, and that’s how he has moved on in his life with his current wife at the time. Evan was comparing apples to oranges. Evan did not care about his marriage with “Monique” any more than he did with June or anyone else for that matter. When Evan was talking about whether to allow Monique to be there during the meeting, he didn’t want her there and talked about how she tried to get Evan to not go through with what he was doing. “Monique” was against what Evan was doing, there is no way he trusted her and didn’t trust her enough to allow her to come to the meeting. Regardless, Monique had nothing to do with the fact Evan was manipulating everyone, everything, because he had plans to ruin them all and extort money from MJ.
This part of the conversation in the lines above was a means for him to try to demonstrate how reasonable he conducts himself in his new marriage, and therefore by extension, Evan was not being unreasonable. The truth was that Evan was selective on who he would converse what to, completely dependent on the subject matter and content of conversation and totally dependent on what he wanted out of it.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Next year, without me,
24 okay? Now, if I didn’t have a chance to talk to
25 her about my fears, my [tape irregularity],
1 probably shoot her, or I’d divorce her.
He’d probably “shoot or divorce her”? Remember when he said he would have June staring down the barrel of a gun and that was how he truly wanted her? He’d shoot “Monique” or her, it would not “matter who”. Evan’s means of dealing with infidelity or serious subjects is extreme: either he acted out in violence or he ran away from it without talking through it. Evan was trying to portray himself as a model or ideal individual- especially when he compares himself to another person, but his words and actions indicate otherwise.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: And I’m not saying her
4 as an individual. Wouldn’t matter who — I could
5 be married to Mother Teresa and I’d have the same
6 feeling. It’s just because of what [tape
7 irregularity] that I’ve been — my finger’s been
8 stuck in the electric socket so much that I don’t
9 want to get stuck in there again, so I keep — and
10 girls do that to me, you know? They keep fucking
11 me up, so —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what was —
13 MR. CHANDLER: — bothers me. I might
14 be totally irrational —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — but you want to know
17 why I’m not crazy about it at all and I have a
18 great relationship and I trust her and everything
19 is fine?
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Because she’ll sit down
22 and she’ll talk to me about it.
It wouldn’t matter who because Evan had trust issues with women. He would have reacted the same way, which negated how he said he trusted “Monique” simply because “she will sit down and talk to him”. You see, it was Evan refused to talk to June and was making communication difficult. Evan trying to explain things were so different with “Monique”, but he did not truly trust her like he said. He did not want her at the meeting and made ridiculous excuses as to why he did not want her there. The truth is that Evan thought if she were at the meeting, she would ruin his plans as he stated Monique tried to convince him to not go through with “it” and begged him to talk with “them”. SO to say that he TRUSTS Monique because she will sit and talk with him, is not exactly truth as he didn’t trust her enough to be at “the meeting” he was planning to have with MJ, June and Jordan.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: And she’s wildly in love
24 with you.
25 MR. CHANDLER: She tells me she is.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: She is.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, it’s very
5 MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know
6 what I told her? I told her this. I said
7 June — “Monique,” I said, “if you ever want to sleep
8 with somebody else or if you don’t love me anymore,
9 if you come to me and you tell me that [tape
10 irregularity] out of the house and fuck his brains
11 out, I’ll love you forever, I’ll support you and
12 wish you well. But if it’s the other way around,
13 you fuck him first and then you [tape
14 irregularity], I’ll kill you, period.” I said,
15 “Those are the rules. If you want to stay with me,
16 you gotta understand that’s the only way I can
17 survive. That’s how I live.
This is a very disturbing passage. Note the extreme: if Monique talked to him about infidelity first before she did anything, then he would be ok with it, love her forever and be supportive of her, but if she didn’t talk about it before she did anything, then he would kill her? Evan’s words are not joke, it was highly possible that he would resort to violence if Monique broke “his rules”. In the next part of the conversation, you will read that Evan claimed that Monique was ok with this kind of talk and said to Evan that “he didn’t have to worry about it because she would not do that to him”. In Evan’s mind, if Monique was ok with this talk, then Schwartz should accept it also, like as if it were nothing. Course, you would be scared out of your mind if someone threatened to shoot, or kill you. Evan’s casualness about violence is like as if it were no big deal, but he was serious in these conversations. The fact that Evan assaulted David at least twice and then in 2006, hurt Jordan, indicates Evan was a time bomb waiting to go off. If angered enough, Evan certainly could get physically violent. The threatening words to do so is just a behavioral action away from doing it.
So what would that kind of thinking mean if applied to his family and Michael? In Evan’s mind, his family, June and Jordan, was not being cooperative with him, claimed they were not talking to him, in other words, no one was “living by his terms”, then it means that he would be either violent with them and or force them into doing as he demanded of them. MJ was on the list to live by Evan’s terms too as he said he “sat down with MJ to discuss what Evan wanted out of the relationship”, which we know refers to May drugging incident. Evan drugged two people to manipulate them, he was certainly capable of much more harm.
Evan felt that Michael came between Evan and his family, and MJ distanced himself from Evan, then in Evan’s mind, it was ok to go after Michael and ruin his life by lying or threatening to kill him. Scary, huh? What is worse is that if MJ did not pay him, would he go after and KILL him? Same with his family if they didn’t do as he wanted? He was surely capable of it and Evan’s expressions of violence are just one step away from acting it out. It is apparent it’s in Evan’s thoughts- but thoughts if entertained enough can quickly become actions. It is called ‘mind/mental rehearsal’.
The point is: the extreme behavior Evan described while talking about Monique is the way he rolled in life. Extremism is how Evan adapted to situations he could not control, violence was easy for him to act on. Evan was known to have physical, violent outbursts. I believe if Evan was angry enough or did not get what he wanted, he could have been capable of killing someone or many, and he would have been able to talk himself into believing it was the right thing to do. The only way Evan demonstrated the only way he can survive is if people follow HIS rules and HE didn’t have to compromise. Evan’s words demonstrate a lack of willingness to compromise with others (contrary to the ideal model he was putting himself to be) and he refused to accept personal responsibility once again; he continually placed accountability outside himself onto others. All of these types of traits combined are pathological.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: It’s all comes — that’s
20 what really relationships —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, trust is real
23 MR. CHANDLER: When you get down to
24 relationships like we — like really intimate ones,
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Like you and I. I trust
3 you with my life.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
5 MR. CHANDLER: And I know you trust me
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? And with Moniquw, I
9 said, “That’s all I’m after.”
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: What does she say?
11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “I understand.
12 That’s fine.” She said, “It’ll never happen. I
13 don’t know why you’re bringing it up, but if you’re
14 bringing it up, I won’t do it. Trust me. It won’t
16 I said, “Okay. I’m just — I’m telling
17 you now ahead of time” –
Evan demonstrates here that his issues run very deep. It also demonstrates that this was how he dealt with all of the relationships in his life, not just intimate ones- by telling them what HE wants, what HE expects to happen and with the threat that if these rules are not honored, there will be hell to pay. True to his words, there was HELL to pay….everyone suffered in this situation. The truth is, MJ did not have to allow Evan to be close to him, it was his choice. If MJ wanted to help Evan financially, he would have. But MJ did not owe anything to Evan, not his time, money or friendship and Evan did not respect the decision. MJ was very generous with his life, time, money and friendships and he had every right to decide who he was close to or not, and his generosity. The point is, Evan felt rejected by MJ in more ways than one, and combined with the drugging incident, that IS at least two volatile motives. Combine that with the pressure of money, his debts…it’s motivations strengthened by one another exponentially.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s good
20 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, I’m not
21 being embarrassed by it —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — I’m not keeping it
24 inside. I want to have a good marriage and a good
His choice of words: “I want to have a good marriage and good relationship”, which actually means he feels he does not feel he has it if he WANTS it. To want something means you don’t have it. If he felt he had a good marriage and relationship, he would have simply said “I HAVE a good marriage and relationship”. This is concerning and remember, his definition of what that is was by HIS rules, HIS expectations and bending to HIS will. NO ONE can have a good relationship and feel that it is ideal when it is one sided. Evan alluded that he valued or at least wanted his relationship with his wife to continue to work, however, all of Evan’s actions threatened this relationship also, and he didn’t care. Evan jeopardized his marriage and all of his relationships to get money; he did not value any relationship when compared to his desire and value attribution for money.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I know this is
3 one issue that bothers me, no matter who that girl
4 would be.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? I’m not —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: In any —
8 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
9 inaudible) personal against her.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
11 MR. CHANDLER: It’s just with me. It’s
12 my problem, and so I’m letting her know that I have
13 a problem. I’m not hiding anything. I’d not
14 trying to be macho cool dude about it.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
16 MR. CHANDLER: And so if I wasn’t able
17 to talk to her, this marriage would have been over
18 a long time ago.
Here Evan stated that it was HIS problem, but his resolution was to put the responsibility on others by saying that others have to follow his rules if they want to have a relationship with him. By definition, that is a controlling personality and placing many conditions upon a relationship. In these passages, Evan was trying to indicate the willingness to communicate, but communication as everything else, was conditional and he did not have to compromise. He said he was not being macho about it, but he did say that if Monique cheated on him before talking to him about it before she acted on it, he would kill her. I’d say that is pretty “macho” and overly aggressive. Evan’s actions were based to manipulate EVERYONE into doing what HE wanted, to give him what HE needed without cares or concerns of consequences. All of this is about HIS CONTROL, because he had a plan that he had to enforce. Evan stated that he had a plan that was set out for him, that he had to follow.
Evan was not “willing to talk” to MJ, Jordan or June as he was trying to manipulate them into a meeting where he would then present his papers- five minute meeting leaves little time to talk, so he had no intention of discussion. His situation with his wife had nothing to do with his plans. Evan was surely going to extremes to selling his rationale to Schwartz.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Because [tape
21 irregularity] —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t we learn like
24 MR. CHANDLER: Because of my
25 imagination, Dave.
The whole situation was developed “Because of my (Evan’s) imagination” ..
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but don’t we learn
2 through experiences —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) want to know what I really think? I
5 really think most people don’t learn. I think at
6 some point in our lives we develop behavior
7 patterns, and even if we know that they’re wrong we
8 just can’t break them.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You know —
10 MR. CHANDLER: Most people can’t change
11 their behaviors.
Evan said: Because of my imagination, Dave. The whole situation was developed “Because of my (Evan’s) imagination” ..See, there you have it. HIS IMAGINATION again… and though this time he knew he was wrong to drug MJ and feared MJ would do something to him about that. Otherwise, Evan realized he knows better but he just cannot help himself when he is faced with certain issues. He exacerbates it by not talking as he said he was willing. Some issues are hard to resolve than others and we all face those hardships, however, Evan made a plan that would harm everyone because of his personal issues. That is not dealing, that is revenge. Evan said “I really think most people don’t learn” as if to compare to himself? Pfft. The only thing Evan learned was how to improve on his manipulative skills in order to get what he wanted in life. As long as it suited his purpose, to him, those means justified the end he wanted, and the end justified those means. “I think at some point in our lives we develop behavior patterns and even if we know that they’re wrong, we just can’t break them.” For Evan, this was equally true.
“Most people can’t change their behaviors” was a belief and mindset that he applied to everyone, perhaps but himself. Evan was so very dysfunctional in his thinking . He didn’t care anyway, he had a goal, and nothing was going to change his mind from accomplishing it. He knew it was wrong, he didn’t care.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
13 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
14 inaudible) they are at a certain —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes and no, but I think
16 you get —
17 MR. CHANDLER: Look at you. Are you
18 going to change now because of what happened here?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, interesting —
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) be different? Is your marriage going to
22 be better? Are you going to — you know, you guys
23 have no right to be married. I told June that
24 myself many times. She would call me all the time
25 and say, “Did Dave call Kelly? Did Dave call
3 What kind of fucking marriage do you
4 guys have? Why don’t you guys just split up so he
5 could see his kids, at least —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: You know, if he doesn’t
8 want to come over to the house because of you, then
9 get divorced so he could see his kids. There’s
10 nothing wrong with that. You know, you might be
11 better friends. She and I were better friends when
12 we [tape irregularity], and what I’m saying to her
13 is that if there’s no — if there’s no
14 communication, there’s no sense in being together
15 with anybody, whether it’s a marriage or a
16 friendship or a business relationship. If you
17 cannot sit down and talk [tape irregularity]
18 ultimately gonna destruct, and that’s what happened
19 here. They shut me out from the most important
20 thing in my life. In fact, I don’t have a life. I
21 don’t want to have a life [tape irregularity].
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I understand it, too,
23 but I gotta tell you, in just talking to you this
24 time, see, Jordy’s copying me.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Well —
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, he’s positively
2 copying me. I mean, he’s been with both of us
3 since — I mean, I’ve had him since he’s — almost
4 as long as you have.
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right.
Evan returns now to hitting David on sensitive subjects and emotions. Evan was hitting low on this and his persistence throughout these conversations shows he would not stop until he got what he wanted in the end.
And…OMG. Evan stated that June and Schwartz have “no right to be married”??!! “Why don’t you guys split up so he could see his kids at least”!!???? Who is he to judge their relationship? Who was coming between who again? EVAN was turning up the manipulation on David. Evan claimed that June, MJ and Jordan divided and conquered, but Evan was doing the very same thing. These passages clearly demonstrate that their own dysfunctional family dynamics are coming between family members- which has NOTHING to do with MJ.
All of Evan’s statements contradict previous ones, which means, he was creating the reasons, situations and thoughts in order to validate himself for what he was doing. Evan tried to put the focus on Schwartz and how he was going to change. These lines are absolute proof that there was family dysfunction previously and it is all independent to MJ. This WHOLE plan Evan devised was to put it all on MJ, to hurt JUNE, JORDAN, “for all they did to him”. MJ was NOT responsible for how people related to each other in those two families before or even after he had come into their lives. It is important that the community realizes it. Remember it was Evan’s perception that June was coming between him and Jordan and he abandoned any reasoning towards consideration to his own responsibility and accountability. Consider this:
If June was asking whether Schwartz called Kelly or Jordan, then IS she really coming between the other parent and child if she WANTS Schwartz or Evan to call the children and was inquiring whether he did? Schwartz said that June tried to get Jordan to call Evan for Father’s day. So she was not getting between anyone, she was trying to encourage them to be together and communicate.
If a child did not want to “go over to the house because of you, then get divorced so he can see his kids”…then that is a dynamic between that child and that parent exclusively- and notice, Evan’s way to resolve that situation is extreme- DIVORCE so they can see each other? Well, Evan was already divorced from June, so who was Evan going to “divorce her” from interacting and from having custody of their son? Evan sought to sever the relationships between MJ and June and Jordan, and Jordan from MJ and June, and sever the relationship between June, Jordan and MJ.
There are plenty of potential resolutions less extreme to try before going that route- it’s called communication. The only insight into how Jordan felt about his mother was something he stated during his conversation with Dr. Gardner where he stated he did not like to live with his mother because she had “rules” he did not like. Now, seriously, what child likes chores, or doing homework, or having curfew or other “rules” of that nature? There was nothing wrong with these kinds of rules. Children NEED those boundaries young to prepare them for adulthood situations. Evan used any situation to his advantage unfairly. Jordan never said he hated his mother…Evan stated how much he (himself) hated June.
Evan said they “shut him out of the most important thing” in his life and said he has no life. Exactly what did they shut him out of? Evan had many opportunities in life to embrace what he considered “the most important thing” and time after time, he didn’t value that relationship truly. Evan was the one who was messing up his relationship with his son, no one else. Evan created much of the communication problems, especially once he began implementing his plans. NO one ruined any relationship for Evan but Evan. In Evan’s words, this is how he dealt with situations and how he interacted with people- he constantly blamed others for his lot in life. Who wants to be around someone who blames them for everything?
With Schwartz and June, Evan was pitting between them and putting them down badly; he was advising both June and Schwartz about the quality of their marriage by pitting them against one another and hitting upon emotions in order to break (at least at this time) Schwartz down and manipulate them. Classic evidence of divide and conquer. Considering Evan wanted to be the one that Jordan modeled himself after, he would not have liked that Jordan was copying Schwartz any more than he liked Jordan copying MJ. Jealousy, envy, greed are some of the most powerful sins and negativity one can embrace.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: And he’s —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
8 inaudible) had him as long as he’s been cognizant
9 of the fact of who’s around him —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, so —
11 MR. CHANDLER: — learned a lot from
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and one of the
14 things he learned, probably, was just to withdraw,
15 because I do it, but, you know, I’m not chastising
16 myself for it. I’m just looking at it objectively.
17 I mean, realistically. I mean, I would say —
18 MR. CHANDLER: You haven’t (inaudible)
19 and in some way it’s resonated throughout the
20 family —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — and partly been the
23 cause of all this happening.
Evan was clearly honing in on David’s mistakes in life and using it against him and so now Evan was back to blaming David as means to manipulate him. Evan was set to blame them all for his lot in life, including David, but for this situation, he was not going to blame David as per his plans. He was set to blame the others.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, but I mean he’s,
25 you know, he’s learned a lot of good things from
2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I’m sure he —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, I mean,
4 everyone’s not perfect.
5 MR. CHANDLER: No. Everyone’s not.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I think —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) expect
8 everyone to be, but you gotta expect people that
9 claim to love you to communicate with you because
10 if there’s communication there’s nothing.
11 What’s the sense of having your
12 relationship? People don’t even care enough about
13 you to — you tell them — I actually told June how
14 much I was hurting. I said —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — “I’m hurting, June.
17 I’m crying every day. I’m dying.”
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but they’re going
19 through every —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Do you know what she
21 said to me?
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
23 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s just too
25 Fuck that.
Here we go back to the “importance of communication”, which Evan was making it impossible and as hostile as he could. Please refer to past discussion and analysis regarding the communication aspect in this post.
Again the word “I” when Schwartz said that Jordan was learning from him – Evan immediately responds with “I’m sure…” and turned the conversation to the aspect of his “importance” of conversation-how HE was hurt, what HE thinks, what HE feels, how HE defines a “good relationship”. Evan equated “love” with “talking” but Evan’s conversations here are very one sided and self-centered and all the while making communication difficult. Again Evan has this holier than thou attitude above and beyond everyone else and was using this as fuel, leverage in order to validate his actions (his plan) and manipulate others.
Evan claimed June said “Fk that”, just like he claimed that June said “go fk yourself” and then admitted that June did not use that word and say it in that way. Perhaps this is the same thing- I’m not saying that June never swore. Evan had a tendency to exaggerate words spoken, as well as flip entire situations. Just keep that in mind. Evan was seriously using everything he could to his advantage in order to manipulate Schwartz.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but you can’t — I
2 mean, you know June.
3 MR. CHANDLER: I can’t make excuses for
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: There’s no way to
6 make — there’s nothing to make an excuse. I mean,
7 we all have our good points and our bad points, and
8 we all have things that —
9 MR. CHANDLER: I think, you know, her
10 bad points [tape irregularity] gone too far. I
11 really do.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think you gotta look
13 at the overall picture. I mean, now we’re
14 talking —
15 MR. CHANDLER: I am looking at — I’m
16 looking at Jordy’s picture. That’s the only
17 picture I’m looking at. I — June’s not part of
Evan demonstrated clear strict judgmental attitudes towards people and he consistently tried to place himself above all that. Evan plans were that he would blame June, and there was no way he was going to back down from it. Evan stated he does not make “excuses” for June as he readily mocks and condemns her by saying that June’s points had gone too far and that he was looking at the whole picture and said June was not part of it, not unless HE allowed it- just as he stated before. Evan detested June so much that he no longer treated her as a human being. He wanted her either on the stand or at the end of a shotgun. Evan said he was going to take Jordan away from June because he felt she had stood between Jordan and Evan, but he also hated her because MJ was including HER and not him, and so in kind, he was going to ruin her relationship with MJ. Evan said he planned to hurt them all in kind as he felt hurt by them. Evan meant it when he said she was not going to be part of Jordan’s future, it was what came to happen as long as he was living.
Again, Evan’s motivation was money and control. If Evan had custody over Jordan, then if and when he was awarded money, he was then in position to be the only parent to influence Jordan on how it was going to be spent. Evan stated, “if I go through with this, I would win big time.” EVERY time Evan said that, he said “I” not Jordan, so his plan was not to benefit Jordan, only himself.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: But do you think that —
20 MR. CHANDLER: I know that after
21 tomorrow — in fact, not even after tomorrow. It’s
22 already happened. I don’t ever want anything to do
23 with June anymore because June is not part of my
24 family. In my mind, she’s died. I don’t ever want
25 to talk to her again. [tape irregularity] sitting
1 on the stand being totally humiliated or at the end
2 of a shotgun. That’s the only way I want to see
3 June now. She’s gotta [tape irregularity] do this
4 to kid. Again, it’s not right. Can do it to me.
5 Can’t do it to my kid. It’s not right.
“June is not part of my family. In my mind, she’s died. I don’t ever want to talk to her again…” Evan stated “he wanted to see June either on the stand or at the end of a shotgun.” Make no mistake, Evan meant it all. On July 7th, Evan left messages threatened that he would kill the family, and now on July 8th, at this point of the conversation, he was saying that he wanted her at the end of a shotgun or on stand. June would have no reason to think Evan was NOT serious whenever he threatened her and now he stated the method: that she would be at the end of a shotgun. Mind or mental rehearsal is a method that people use to prepare their minds to actions. The thoughts of violence Evan had if well entertained is behaviorally not too far from physical action.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
7 that whatever’s happening, if you think it’s bad
8 for him, she’s done, you know, out of malice?
9 MR. CHANDLER: You want to know
10 something? You don’t even have to ask me. You
11 could — as you said before, you want to sit down
12 and talk to the people I spoke to —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — you’re going to have
15 a chance to do that if you want to. You go and ask
16 the experts —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — and you won’t have to
19 ask. They will be there anyway.
20 There’s not one person in this world
21 [tape irregularity] can’t find a person —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — disagree with me.
24 I’m the one that disagreed with — I
25 didn’t even want to know about it.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: I kept saying, “No, this
3 is okay. There’s nothing wrong. This is great.”
4 It took experts to convince me [tape
5 irregularity] that by not taking action —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — my son was going to
8 be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life
9 [tape irregularity]. That was what I heard.
Here Evan referred to “the MANY experts” again- just pointing out how Evan kept going back to manipulating where he needed David to believe him. Again, Evan blamed the experts for his plans, his own opinions, beliefs and attitudes. This is a blatant lie when you compare it to Evan’ actions and timing of events. Ah yes, the experts -he shopped and interviewed several. He shopped and interviewed until he found some who were willing to say and do what HE wanted for his purposes and agenda. “There’s not one person in this world…..can’t find a person …disagree with me.” and then he changed to – “I’m the one that disagreed with…I didn’t even want to know about it” is a great example of how Evan’s brain was releasing some truth. Evan was stating to David that it was “the experts” who HAD to convince HIM, and here he slips up by saying everyone he spoke to, couldn’t find one to disagree with HIM. HE was “convincing” the “experts”, which behaviorally means, the idea and purpose was HIS initially. Evan was clear that he had help, that it was not only his plans as others were IN on it. Then Evan quickly made his mind go along with the “story” that “they” had to convince HIM. “Can’t find a person …disagree with him” shows Evan went to the professionals with the ideas and again, it was really EVAN trying to convince THEM, and shopping for someone who did agree with him. So you see, these all demonstrate Evan had a plan from at least since May.
Evan stated in the first conversation that he had been coached on what to say and do, all based on an agenda and written down plans. The part where I analyzed the “experts” earlier in this conversation is also relevant here. (Please refer back to that section: “According to the Expert” Analysis ****reference point)
A parent who truly believes that their child was molested does not go to a ‘lawyer to ask how to report child abuse by third party without liability to a parent’ without the asking parent to have a plan in mind, so it is clear Evan went to the experts with an agenda. A person who truly believes that their child was molested goes to the police and then to psychologists, psychiatrists or treatment for the inflicted, not to a lawyer asking how to report it via THIRD PARTY without liability to a parent. “According to the experts”?? Oh no, all this was according to Evan’s plans to ruin everyone.
“My son was going to be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life. That is what I heard”…no, this is what Evan KNEW would happen if he MADE Jordan lie for him and make false accusations against MJ, who was someone Jordan valued, idolized, emulated and embraced as a role model.
He could not “find one person who disagreed with him?” But Evan interviewed several and shopped for them to convince him of something that HE didn’t want to hear. Not to mention, Evan was referring to experts that he had not met yet and so all of these aspects are all absolute and direct behavioral proof that Evan had devised a plan, researched it, wrote it down, practiced and rehearsed and used professionals to help him who were either part of it or they were manipulated.
Evan intended for Jordan to be “irreparably damaged” for payback because Jordan chose MJ over him. He was going to alienate Jordan from everyone because he felt Jordan alienated him from MJ. He was going to hurt Jordan in kind for the way he felt Jordan hurt him. Jordan would lose his relationship with his mother, siblings, step parents, and friend based on lies, envy and greed. Evan was trying so hard to get Schwartz to believe him. Evan’s ever changing stories and backtracking throughout the whole ordeal clearly shows the truth. This was not about molestation; Evan planned to make false accusations. In 8 days from when the conversation was taped, Evan would drug up his own son with sodium amytal and plant suggestions telling his son to tell Evan what he wanted to hear, for over an hour…..and once Jordan “repeated” what Evan said, he knew he had successfully manipulated his own son to do Evan’s bidding.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because his friend is
11 older, or because of all the seduction?
12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, age in
13 and of itself is not a harmful thing.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: But it could have been
16 used to advantage, and in some ways Michael is
17 using his age and experience and his money and his
18 power to great advantage to Jordy. The problem is
19 he’s also harming him, greatly harming him, for his
20 own selfish reasons. He’s not the altruistic, kind
21 human being that he appears to be.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think —
23 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
24 inaudible) selfish motives here.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, harming Jordy
1 because it’s taken him out of reality?
2 MR. CHANDLER: It’s not so much really
3 what he’s taken him out of. It’s what he’s brought
4 him into.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I don’t mean to
7 be devious. I just can’t be —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: You can’t tell me.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — specific about it,
10 but I tell you that, again, it all comes down to
11 one thing. They don’t want to talk to me.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
Remember some of the emphasized words were the same ones Jordan would come to use when talking to Dr. Gardner: Jordan stated similarly that “MJ was using age (power and position) as advantage, money as seduction”. Obviously, Jordan was coached on what to say and do by EVAN. Evan was laying it on thick to David now, trashing MJ in effort to pit David against MJ.
Oh my goodness. This is a really good paragraph to show you the disconnections in Evan’s mind of what he claims MJ did, to what Evan was planning, the reasons why and the truth that MJ’s relationship with the family was innocent. Did you catch how? Right off, David asked a question about age and then Evan avoided answering it by saying “age in itself was not a harmful thing” and the he immediately expressed that [age] “COULD HAVE BEEN USED to advantage” by MJ “IN SOME WAYS???” This is more proof that the brain works harder at lying than it is to recall the truth. If Evan truly believed that MJ harmed the family, any time he described what MJ “did” would not be described as “could” nor “in some ways”. Evan’s explanations were labored and inconsistent and his verb usage did not represent consistently.
“Could have been used” only means a POSSIBILITY of or a hypothetical, action. Evan clearly stated in other areas of these conversations that MJ used his age, power and money to seduce the family and now he said “it COULD have been used”???? Do you see the disconnect? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/could There is a distinct difference in saying “MJ DID use or used age, power, and money” and saying “he COULD HAVE used”: one being that he knew for sure because saying “did” or a past tense of a verb is the past tense of a performed action, and the other (could) being only a possibility of the ability to perform an action. Evan’s disconnect using the word “could” for an action Evan previously claimed MJ “did” is a clear cognitive disassociation between what Evan knew didn’t happen and what Evan was claiming that happened. It means Evan was lying about the things he claimed MJ did to the family because if someone does something to you and you know it, you don’t say “they COULD HAVE done [an action]”, you say “a person DID [an action]” and that would not change at any point any time you are asked, no matter how you are asked or no matter how many times you explain something.
“It’s not so really what he’s taken him out of. It’s what he’s brought him in to. I don’t mean to be devious, I just can’t tell you.” Really? After all that Evan claimed happened in these conversations and he did not mean to be devious and just can’t tell him? Evan’s plans were nothing but devious and he said plenty of lies, inconsistencies, and divulged his devious plan….and he wanted David to believe Evan was not intentionally being DEVIOUS? Diversionary methods from the truth are all tactics of makers of deception. Evan intended to be devious, as he had devised a plan that he INTENDED to “destroy everyone”. His own words and explanations show his devious intentions.
And now he said, “It all comes down to one thing: They don’t want to talk to me.” In Evan’s mind, it is beside the point of the countless times Evan manipulated as there was no way Evan could accept responsibility, but for him, his means justified the end and the end justified the means. It all came down to one man’s cruel plans for the love of money and revenge…it surely was not about communication. Evan was also reiterating the claims that THEY had no reason to not talk to him, though Evan knew perfectly well they had reasons to stay away. Again, if MJ was not visiting Evan, Evan didn’t have “opportunity” (as he called MJ an opportunity for Jordan and his family) to “get what he wanted out of him”. Evan was all about money and getting what he wanted.
“What MJ brought him into” but he can’t be specific about it and then he got back to how they would not talk to him? Evan avoided to answer to the question deliberately, which is a sign of deception, but he also reverted the conversation back to “communication”. Clearly, the situation was NOT about molestation. Again, see previous comments regarding the evidence and how Evan was creating the communication barrier to suit his agenda here and in the last few transcript paragraph analyses comments because it shows exactly how Evan manipulated everyone around him in this situation to suit his agenda.
Evan was trying very hard to sell his story to Schwartz. Someone in Jordan’s family should have protected Jordan from what EVAN was bringing HIM into…
13 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy — yeah, he’s 13
14 years old. He’s only [tape irregularity], hoping
15 that the problem will go away by itself, but June’s
16 old enough to know better.
17 June’s the one that’s frustrated me.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, this is
19 the deal: I talked to Jordy about it today, about,
20 you know, his not contacting you and not calling
21 you on Father’s Day and not sending you anything.
22 He’s confused June — and this is the truth and
23 from him. June did everything to get him to send
24 you a card, to call and everything. He’s just
25 frustrated, you know, and I don’t know about what
1 or — you know, it’s just like he’s scared or
2 doesn’t know what to do or —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible).
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
5 MR. CHANDLER: June didn’t do a thing
6 to have him call me or send me a card by her own
7 admission to me last time. She didn’t give a shit,
8 is what she told me.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but I don’t
10 believe that because, I mean —
11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
12 inaudible) told me.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because, I mean —
14 MR. CHANDLER: I —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: With June and — I
16 talked to them today.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, she’s lying
18 to you, Dave.
Now who was using age against someone? Oh my. “Jordie is only 13…but June knows better”.. June “knows better” because she knew Evan better and because she would not do what Evan wanted her to up to this point in time -that was what frustrated Evan about her. Just another example of dividng and conquering.
I’m certain Jordan was tired of Evan’s fighting. Jordan wanted the fighting between the families to stop. Jordan was just a child, a young teenager at the mercy of his parents for survival. Jordan was witness to Evan drugging MJ and saw how his father took advantage of MJ- where Jordan was probably threatened to not tell anyone, and now heard that his father wants to kill him.. Evan was the one hiding the real reasons why, and then Evan turned the table around and was blaming MJ and June of other things in order to hide what Evan was doing. Of course Jordan was scared of Evan. This entire situation was about the interactions between two families- Schwartz, June and Jordan and Evan Chandler. June, Jordan and MJ continued to spend time together in the month of June up until July 9th.
This is where you can see it was Evan interfering with all their relationships. David said that JORDAN told him that June asked him to call Evan many times and that he himself did not want to talk to his father. SO you see, June did NOT come between Jordan and Evan as Evan wanted everyone else to believe. Evan didn’t want to believe that because it did not fit into Evan’s plan to blame her for coming between him and Jordan.
The words demonstrate that whatever issues Jordan had with Evan was between them and about the quality of interaction between them. One thing that Jordan stated in his conversation with Dr. Gardner was how Evan “only wanted Jordan to stay in the house with him and write screen plays” and how that was an issue for Jordan. Schwartz provided decent information that Jordan was the one who did not want contact with his father. Jordan did not call him because HE did not want to and he certainly had good reasons.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but would Jordy
21 MR. CHANDLER: Now they’re scared shit.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. Would Jordy — no,
23 because they don’t know anything about it. I
24 didn’t even tell them that I had talked to you this
25 morning, okay?
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) them know you heard the message.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And what are you going
5 there all of a sudden? You haven’t been there —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Last night’s the first
7 night I’ve been there.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. By accident?
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, it’s Kelly’s
10 birthday. I mean, you know, I got — it’s tough
11 for me too. It’s not easy. I mean, you don’t
12 really know what’s going on with me, but, I mean,
13 it’s very, very, very difficult times for me.
14 MR. CHANDLER: So what?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Very.
16 MR. CHANDLER: So what you’re saying is
17 that because of your problem you sacrifice the
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I did it —
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) money all during —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I just — I
23 fucked up, but —
24 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you fucked up.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) I’m not fucking up –
Evan did not answer Schwartz when Schwartz asked him “why would Jordan lie”. It simply did not fit into Evan’s thinking that it was Jordan who did not want to spend time or anything with Evan. SO Evan again ignored Schwartz. David said they have no idea what is going on, which again supports that Evan had no reason to behave as he did. But see who was suspicious of David who ‘all of a sudden coming around?’ And at the same time, Evan condemned David for his separation from the family. Evan was rather defensive that David was around and that he heard the threatening messages.
Here in timing, Evan was implementing his plans, already set in motion, where Evan said previously in these Chandler-Schwartz conversations that had David been around, perhaps “this” would not have happened. One can argue that “this” meant “molestation”, however, Evan planned to fabricated molestation claims already as of July 8th, it was how Evan was going to get money (extortion). Evan meant cognitively that if David was around at home with Jordan and June, he would not have “planned” what he was already implementing so hence more reasons for Evan to manipulate David as Evan now seemed threatened by David’s appearance in June’s life even though it would be natural for David to want to participate in Kelly (Lily)’s birthday. Guilty consciences will be paranoid like that as Evan was aware of all the harm Evan was about to cause everyone. This could be Evan’s admission that if David was in June and Jordan’s lives consistently that DAVID would have never allowed Evan to manipulate this situation into what it was, that it would have NEVER gotten to that point. It was said that David was one who was trying to stop Evan from doing what he planned. HE recorded the conversation and took the tape to MJ, where June and Jordan (Lily too) was.
So Evan was intimidated by David’s presence and that is why Evan had now resorted to intimidating, belittling, blaming, and manipulating David so relentlessly and intently. Though Evan had some trust in him to have the conversation, but Evan also was using the opportunity to attack, manipulate and intimidate David. At the same time, Evan thought he could manipulate David into “helping him get rid of MJ”. There were several reasons why Evan talked to David on July 8th.
Schwartz seemed to be coming back into June’s life as he stated “tonight was the first night he had been there” and he had been going through “very, very, very difficult” for him. So you realize there were many issues going on in their lives for a LONG time. They had been separated BEFORE MJ came into their lives. Evan was very unforgiving of David’s hard times. Evan continually would turn the conversation around whenever he wanted control over subjects they were speaking at the time. Evan did not want to hear how he’s messed up with his relationship with Jordan any more than he wanted to hear that it was Jordan who did not want to contact him on Father’s day.
Going back to when Evan had stated before that if “David was there, this would not have happened”…. the point is Evan WAS threatened by David’s presence and that is why in these conversations Evan tried so hard to divide and conquer him from June, Jordan and MJ. Also, Evan used the separation between June and David with the National Enquirer story to help influence David to helping him. It is very possible that Evan promised money in the end to David if he helped him. David said in the 1994 lawsuits between Evan, June and David that he did not believe that MJ molested Jordan. David was supposedly in debt to the tune of 4-5Million, and he asked June to ask MJ if he could venture in a business deal to borrow money. Remember the fight Evan and David had in Rothman’s office mid-August where they were fighting about money they were asking for in the settlement? Evan said that David was had no right to be on the lawsuit because he was not Jordan’s father. David complained how he’s lost money dealing with the situation. Evan blamed David again and assaulted him in the lawyer’s office….now we see motive that David had to help Evan. These aspects could have been possibilities of how David came on board, and so there are additional motives for David to help Evan and for Evan to recruit him to his side.
Subsequently, David sued Evan in a separate lawsuit after the settlement was made to get money from Evan for damages he endured. David also sued MJ for damages that same month- August 16, 1994 for “breaking up his family” (sound familiar?) All of these points are relevant and very important because it demonstrates they dynamics of their family, and influence of Evan’s success in extorting money from MJ, David then used the very same tactics against Evan in 1994 litigations.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — when you’re trying to
4 survive —
5 MR. CHANDLER: Hey, Dave, it doesn’t
6 matter. You want to know something? When my
7 father was dying of cancer —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — and he had — and he
10 got in a car crash that crushed his leg and his
11 spinal cord —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: — at the same time and
14 he was in incredible pain —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — I used to talk to him
17 about it —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — and he would say,
20 “You know what?”
21 I’d say, “Why don’t you — you never
22 talk — you never talk about it, you never complain
23 to anybody.”
24 He said, “You know what? Because
25 everybody’s got their own problems, and nobody’s
1 gonna think that my problem’s any worse than their
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And so as bad as your
5 problem is [tape irregularity] it may not be on the
6 same scale, but emotionally, financially,
7 psychologically, it’s devastating me as much as
8 [tape irregularity].
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I accept that.
10 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
Now Evan changed the subject to further the conversation away from the statements regarding Jordan and father’s day. Evan is saying here that his problem is emotionally, financially, psychologically devastating to him as much as Schwartz’ problems are to Schwartz. The truth is that Evan did not care about anyone’s else’s problems but his own and he freely used situations to his advantage consistently. Evan only cared about what HE WANTED and needed.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I — let me —
12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m telling you this:
13 That as bad as my life is, I’m willing to let it
14 get a lot worse —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — and sacrifice
17 whatever it is — and I don’t even consider it a
18 sacrifice — give up whatever it is so that my son
19 won’t be damaged.
20 You’re not willing to do that. You
21 fall apart just to save one of your kids [tape
22 irregularity] away from my practice, from my
23 family, from my wife, from Cody, from everybody
24 else, do whatever I have to do —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think that’ll
1 save Jordy? I mean, don’t you think there’s a
2 happy medium?
3 MR. CHANDLER: No. We’re not gonna
4 save him. June’s not gonna save him. Who’s gonna
5 save him? Gotta be me.
“Gotta be me” to “save Jordan? Evan could not save Jordan from a situation that did not exist or from the family dynamics either. Evan was CAUSING the problems then he wants to save Jordan? A bit like a person suffering from Munchausen syndrome, where a parent hurts and abuses their child to seek attention for themselves, but the only difference is that Evan wanted to save himself from his responsibilities and problems he made financially, and from the problems he had with his son and it would be at the expense of Jordan and at the expense of MJ in order to accomplish his goals to satisfy his own needs. He didn’t care that he was hurting people to do it and he was not doing it for attention, he did it for money and revenge.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you really
7 think he has —
8 MR. CHANDLER: — one.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think it’s
10 just gonna run its course?
11 MR. CHANDLER: Dave . . .
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know more
13 than I know, so I’m at a disadvantage.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, I will tell
15 you without question. It’s gone way too far.
“It’s gone way too far”….EVAN was going way too far and he knew it. Evan was making up lies about an innocent man to ruin his life and was about to severely ruined the lives of two families in the same swoop. This was little risk to Evan, he said he had NOTHING TO LOSE. he did not care about any of them and the money was all he had his sights on, it was the only thing that mattered to him. When someone truly values and love the people in their lives, they do not do things to tear apart their world and there should be no amount of money that could influence to do so. He said previously that it was going to go beyond custody, beyond them all, beyond MJ’s nightmares. Humiliated beyond belief. His plan went way too far! Evan was attempting to take the focus off what he was truly doing by focusing on everyone else.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is never going to
18 be the same person he was.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: It’s never — by the
21 time it runs its course —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — if it does, he will
24 be so damaged he’ll never recover —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
1 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s not my
2 opinion. I mean, I happen to be believe it now
3 because my eyes have been opened —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not the one
6 that first [tape irregularity], so what I’m saying
7 to you is that I’m acting because [tape
8 irregularity] I’m going to cause him great harm,
9 and you tell me if maybe it’s gonna cause him harm
10 right now. I think he’ll be harmed much greater if
11 I do nothing, and besides now I’m convinced that if
12 I do nothing I’m going to be, from doing nothing,
13 causing him harm, and I couldn’t –
Evan said: “Jordy’s never going to be the same person he was. It’s never — by the time it runs its course — — if it does, he will be so damaged he’ll never recover – and that is not my opinion. I mean, I happen to be believe it now because my eyes have been opened.“ Evan again is fully exposed…behaviorally speaking, especially regarding “the great harm”.
This is one of those cognitive associations that Evan put right back onto “the great harm”, which HE said he caused, so when Evan made that statement, he was referring to himself not MJ. MJ didn’t cause it, Evan did and he consistently made that association. He further said that by him deciding to “do something” about it was also going to cause ”great harm” and he said he if he did nothing, it would cause “great harm”, again, that is all about Evan. By saying that, he made an association between himself and what he had already done, with WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO, and “the great harm”- a full circle. Which means: HE caused Jordan great harm (which he admitted) and HE was going to cause MORE great harm. Evan didn’t associate ANY of that “great harm” with MJ or June, just to himself. Furthermore, HE said he thought Jordan would be harmed GREATER if he didn’t do anything, which we know Evan’s plans suited Evan’s needs and desires not Jordan. Refer to Conversation One Summary in Part A, where Evan described his plans. All of his plans whether it benefited Jordan was IRRELEVANT to Evan.
ANYTIME Evan associated “great harm” as the subject with something, Evan ALWAYS made the reference to ONLY himself or something HE did and now associated it to what he planned to do and it’s made a full circle back to Evan. Anytime Evan talked about his plans as the subject, Evan had to make a cognitive effort and BLAMED MJ primarily, then June and Jordan. THE main disconnect is there is no cognitive association between the “great harm”, the plans and MJ, June and Jordan. If Evan was telling the truth, the cognitive connection would have been consistently made between those three aspects, but Evan did not EVER make those three associations together- that means behaviorally speaking, Evan was lying and manipulating the whole situation to suit his agenda. Evan stated he did not think what they [MJ, Jordan, and June] had not done anything wrong but it is clear he was going to BLAME them for what Evan did and then turned the story around onto them.
Evan was adept at abandoning any accountability and responsibility for his life. The quality of Evan’s relationships is one example, his finances are another example. Evan owed 68K because he did not pay June, not because he didn’t have the money, because he didn’t want to. Evan’s plans involved getting money to fund his screenwriting career. Evan believed that MJ could help him establish a career instantly and especially if he gave him money. The moment MJ distanced himself and stopped calling, Evan could not then ask MJ for what he wanted anymore now could he? Jordan distanced from Evan since May and was choosing to visit MJ instead, so now Evan could not write screenplays with him, now could he? June allowed Jordan to choose, and though she tried to have Jordan call and visit Evan, she could not make Jordan call Evan or talk to him, now could she? Evan kept saying: THEY made ME do this because THEY cut him out, THEY were not talking to him- “MJ stopped calling me, there was no reason for him to stop calling me”. It was completely Evan’s fault for the reasons why and he knew it all was his own doing: HE drugged up MJ in May (an overdose at that) and then tried to take advantage of MJ for over five hours. Jordan was witness to it. Evan ruined his relationship with his son and MJ all at once. I believe the May incidents were the last straw for Jordan and that was why he chose MJ over Evan (until Evan forced Jordan otherwise). Evan was angry at them, so he turned it around and blamed them.
Evan made clear consistent cognitive associations between his plans placing blame on MJ, June and Jordan because he intended to BLAME them for his own actions. Evan’s PLANS were to gain custody over Jordan, isolate Jordan to program him for the molestation claims, isolate June from MJ, MJ from June and Jordan, and the he was going to ruin their lives. He sought to ruin them all in kind FOR WHAT HE PERCEIVED THEY DID TO HIM because he could not get what he wanted OUT of them. That is MANY MOTIVES feeding off one another inside Evan’s mind- Evan’s emotions behind it fueled it exponentially. YOU SEE this had NOTHING to do with suspected molestation (see Evidence analysis section in Part A where Evan drugged his son to program him regarding molestation, and “Expert analysis” reference in this Part B section) because Evan did not make an association between molestation or suspicion of it with “the great harm” but he did use the molestation accusations as part of his PLANS- he the in turn drugged Jordan and then programmed him to do what he wanted him to do. ANY TIME David asked Evan directly about molestation, Evan answered with references to his plans and other things- he didn’t avoid the answer, that was his answer. Evan’s disconnect regarding molestation is very important because it shows the claims are lies.
Additionally, Molestation does not “run its course”, one incident is all it takes to harm someone and no one would have to convince any parent of the effects, but molestation claims were Evan’s invention and fabrication as part of his plans to ruin MJ’s career, to separate MJ from June and Jordan and was the means by which Evan manipulated custody to split Jordan and June forever. The other “experts” Evan referred to were not consulted until AFTER July 8th and that was part of his plans he had to manipulate and create in order to do the rest of his plans successfully. The evidence he said he had did not exist or was created after July 8th. Evan said he shopped for professionals who had convinced HIM, but yet it was Evan who asked professionals about how to report abuse without liability to a parent as well as inquire a psych professional regarding a fictitious scenario, the same “letter” that Evan used during the meeting against MJ and June.
The behavioral analysis leads to Evan and Evan only.
Oh my, Evan stated that is not “his opinion” – but Evan surely practiced his blame the professionals scheme…. “the professionals convinced ME” BS…yep, Evan went shopping and interviewed many professionals because “he needed THEM to convince him of an opinion that was not his”- “experts” he had not even met yet to boot. And so Evan then needed time to invent the “evidence” that had not happened yet and had to drug Jordan to program his son in order to “have that ‘evidence’” plus other ‘evidence’ that never existed on tape but had claimed was already in his possession locked up somewhere –oh yes, the very “Evidence” that David could “read and see on the fk’in screen” and “ask the experts himself” in a trial that Evan so desperately avoided participation in at all costs. What an incredible BS Evan was loading out. I know that was a complete run on, but …it made my point.
I want to address this part: Why ask David to tell him if “maybe it was going to cause him harm” if the “maybe it” was referring to molestation? Most people in the USA would say that molestation causes great harm to a child, any psychiatrist would not have to convince anyone in the USA that it is harmful. I am saying that Evan asked David the question because it was not molestation that he was talking about. Evan was talking about “HIS PLANS and acting on it” and so he was basically asking David’s opinion, to appear as if David’s opinion would matter to Evan. He was manipulating David and trying to reinforce his scripted written on paper plan and he was trying to enlist David’s help in “ridding MJ”.
Besides, David’s opinion would not matter no more than Evan’s then wife. Evan’s wife (“Monique”) could not influence him to not go through with his plans, she was against it. David would not be able to sway Evan either and there is evidence of not being able to sway him in these conversations in all the questions David asked him regarding his plans and whether it was beneficial to JORDAN. Evan’s desire for money was far stronger that any human bond he had with anyone. Evan was only concerned with what Evan needed and what Evan wanted, so the only one being harmed by not going through with his plans was Evan. Evan knew that he would cause Jordan and his family great harm if he went through with the plans, and he did not care. Jordan’s welfare was “irrelevant” to him, and yet here, Evan was again trying to sell it that he was doing this for Jordan and his welfare. It would be “a massacre if Evan did not get what he wanted” (conversation 1 26, line9) Evan had it all written down, shopped and interviewed several professionals, researched his plan so extensively and had it all written on paper- he said “If I go through with this, I win big time. There is no way that I lose. I’ve checked it inside and out. I will get everything I want, and they will be totally- they will be destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. ” (conversation 2, p132, lines 18-25) Evan only cared about what he wanted and was going to destroy everyone, including Jordan, to get what he wanted.
(to be continued…)